Wedge basics

[45D]

I had seen Blackie's "arbor fix" before but wanted to refresh my memory so I found it.
Blackie's idea of a split washer being a fix is fine for him but it's the JB Weld probably doing more than the "single coil spring" ( split washer which will flex under compression).
He's not referencing a specific endshake number so he's fine thinking he did something. I've heard others "hawking" the split washer fix and it's just not an acceptable solution for me and my customers. It would be nice if a "one size fits all" spacer would work but it won't. Every spacer I install is fitted to that specific revolver. If I go too far and make one a little thin, I keep it because it will be a good fit or start for another revolver one day.
His idea of the wedge being sacrificial isn't really right because a corrected revolver isn't detrimental to the wedge . . . a loose fitting wedge ( finger tight, uncorrected arbor) is detrimental to the wedge.

But hey, if that's what some think is the right thing for their revolvers, it's they're revolvers!! I've laid out my thoughts, my process and it has proven over time and through competition to be a bullet proof setup. So, I'll keep doing it my way and I'll be happy to help whoever wants to do the same.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

It's easier to make an arbor spacer out of a screw head as Mike has described, than to make a precision fit, heat treated, tool steel wedge. I've done both, I can knock out a spacer in 15 minutes with a cordless drill, feeler guages, and bench grinder and the gun is good to go for life. Wedges reguire tool steel, a mill, torches, about an hour, and I use a toaster oven to temper. Seems to me, the spacer is the way to go

That is very true as it takes me a good days work to mill out ,fit and heat treat a wedge . I don't use the head of a screw for the end plug but rather turn a steel cylindrical disk on the lathe to the thickness needed determined by a preliminary caliper measurement varified by shim stock then the solid steel plug in turned and checked for fit . When fit up correctly I use a drop of red loc-tite to adhere it to the perimeter of the well end.
I drill a hole in the middle of the end fit plug so it can be retrieved while fitting.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I had seen Blackie's "arbor fix" before but wanted to refresh my memory so I found it.
Blackie's idea of a split washer being a fix is fine for him but it's the JB Weld probably doing more than the "single coil spring" ( split washer which will flex under compression).
He's not referencing a specific endshake number so he's fine thinking he did something. I've heard others "hawking" the split washer fix and it's just not an acceptable solution for me and my customers. It would be nice if a "one size fits all" spacer would work but it won't. Every spacer I install is fitted to that specific revolver. If I go too far and make one a little thin, I keep it because it will be a good fit or start for another revolver one day.
His idea of the wedge being sacrificial isn't really right because a corrected revolver isn't detrimental to the wedge . . . a loose fitting wedge ( finger tight, uncorrected arbor) is detrimental to the wedge.

But hey, if that's what some think is the right thing for their revolvers, it's they're revolvers!! I've laid out my thoughts, my process and it has proven over time and through competition to be a bullet proof setup. So, I'll keep doing it my way and I'll be happy to help whoever wants to do the same.

Mike

I did not say your method does not work and I am sure Blackie can figure out if the washer is to thin or to thick. you are very good working on the pistols and Blackie's way is simple easy to understand and can be done with no special tools. I would not want to send my gun away with high shipping costs wait a month or longer spend 100-200 to get a system that might be 10-20% better. I get it you look at Blackie as unwashed competition lol and maybe 10% of C&B guys shoot in competition

 

[wiscoaster]

I think a lot depends on intended use. Occasional range shooting for sport doesn't demand the same attention to perfection required for frequent wear and tear and/or maximum possible accuracy. For me, the split washer solution works fine, and I carry in my black powder range kit a little baggie of various small washers, because "one size fits all" does NOT apply across multiple pistols.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I think a lot depends on intended use. Occasional range shooting for sport doesn't demand the same attention to perfection required for frequent wear and tear and/or maximum possible accuracy. For me, the split washer solution works fine, and I carry in my black powder range kit a little baggie of various small washers, because "one size fits all" does NOT apply across multiple pistols.

this is exactly how I feel. in fact you can shoot way more then occasional shooting and have zero problems. with the cost and hard to get components time involved I dont know how a gun can be worn out

 

[45D]

I get it you look at Blackie as unwashed competition lol and maybe 10% of C&B guys shoot in competition

On the contrary, I don't consider him any sort of competition at all. I'm pretty sure he's not in the "tuning" business. I've even helped folks that are interested in doing this for quite some time.
I don't know the % of cowboy shooters to the bp market but about 1/3 of my customers are CAS ( many who are championship shooters). The rest of them are folks that want a "world class" type revolver, I doubt Blackie's work would be 80 - 90 % there.
What I've shown you in this forum would put you well above Blackie's "fixes" (also with no special tools) so, I'm just another avenue for you to choose from . . . you're welcome.

Mike

 

[SPQR70AD]

no doubt Mike you are one of the best at what you do just saying most guys dont need that level of sophistication

 

[Pete453]

That is very true as it takes me a good days work to mill out ,fit and heat treat a wedge . I don't use the head of a screw for the end plug but rather turn a steel cylindrical disk on the lathe to the thickness needed determined by a preliminary caliper measurement varified by shim stock then the solid steel plug in turned and checked for fit . When fit up correctly I use a drop of red loc-tite to adhere it to the perimeter of the well end.
I drill a hole in the middle of the end fit plug so it can be retrieved while fitting.

That's a great way too, solid as a rock. The screw head works well because the bottom of the arbor hole is shaped like drill bit and the round head finds its own center. It's a good method for those with minimal tools. Or the impatient like me.

no doubt Mike you are one of the best at what you do just saying most guys dont need that level of sophistication

Mike's method isn't sophisticated at all. I've done 4 of them, they're simple and quick to do and will last the life of the gun unless lost. I like Blackie's videos, but a spring washer isn't a brick wall solid abutment like a screw head or a solid disc like M. DeLand makes. It still has the potential to move. As said, to each their own, lots of ways to skin that cat

 

[SPQR70AD]

That's a great way too, solid as a rock. The screw head works well because the bottom of the arbor hole is shaped like drill bit and the round head finds its own center. It's a good method for those with minimal tools. Or the impatient like me.


Mike's method isn't sophisticated at all. I've done 4 of them, they're simple and quick to do and will last the life of the gun unless lost. I like Blackie's videos, but a spring washer isn't a brick wall solid abutment like a screw head or a solid disc like M. DeLand makes. It still has the potential to move. As said, to each their own, lots of ways to skin that cat

so mike replacing springs polishing tuning timing the action is not sophistication? if I was firing a cannon maybe a washer would not be good enough

 

[M. De Land]

so mike replacing springs polishing tuning timing the action is not sophistication? if I was firing a cannon maybe a washer would not be good enough

He was just saying Mike's methods work, are practical and the average Joe can do many of them which is why he makes the posts to help folks out!

 

[Pete453]

He was just saying Mike's methods work, are practical and the average Joe can do many of them which is why he makes the posts to help folks out!

Thank you. How did we go from talking wedges to tuning? Not even the same conversation

 

[M. De Land]

Thank you. How did we go from talking wedges to tuning? Not even the same conversation

Oh. I don't know, just like any conversation subjects change and we wonder off in the weeds and get side tracked but it's all good as were generally still talking guns and exchanging ideas and information !

 

[Steven Worden]

Your gun has a short arbor. There are many threads on this topic - some going right now. Read up then come back with questions.

My arbor may be short, but it has fathered 3 offspring.

The arbor on this pistol has a raised section that perfectly sets the depth of the barrel. I have found that the machining of the hole in the arbor compared to the barrel is way off and does not allow for the wedge to inserted all of the way to the spring lock. In fact it is very hard to insert at all.

I spent a couple of hours with a stone trying to whittle the wedge down to have it fit, but gave up after I put a huge scratch in the pistol trying to get the jammed wedge out.

Super Bummed that this fancy pistol may be nothing more than a shelf dandy.

 

[Pete453]

Keep checking back, I'm sure help is on the way. Some pics might help us help you if you can share a few

 

[CyrusP]

My arbor may be short, but it has fathered 3 offspring.

Mine too! And I’m not even Irish!