Weird Lead

[Grullaguy]

I find it really hard to find pure lead, so any I find I save for balls for cap and ball and Minies, REALs etc.

I have resorted to using range scrap for my round balls for rifle and it has worked very well. I sort my range scrap, separating it into obviously cast bullets, jacketed bullets and unknown fragments. I have been using the unknown fragments mixed with jacketed for round ball. The cast, I reuse for my modern guns.

I mined some lead back in the spring from an abandoned range up in the hills. There was a high percentage of cast bullets in the soil. The ingots I cast from the mix of jacketed and fragments was much duller in colour than usual and when I cast round ball this week from it was very "metallic looking".

Yesterday, I went shooting and used a combination of my old cast from a Lee .490" mould and a few of the harder ball I cast earlier in the week. I found that the new ball was really hard to load with a .018" patch, so I did the remaining trail walk with my older ball.

When I got home I measured both my old and new ball and discovered that my old ball made from local range scrap was consistently .493" while the new balls varied between .498" and .50" in diameter.

I have expected my harder cast ball to be larger, but this mystery lead is certainly weird.

Out of stubborness, I will use the strange ball I cast with a thin patch. But the remainder of that lead is destined for paper patching in my centerfires with smokeless loads.

I just thought I would share.

 

[Matt85]

strange that it would come out so much larger. i wonder whats in the lead.

-matt

 

[Grullaguy]

It's got me wondering as well.
When I was casting, it had the irridescent blue sheen like pure lead does. The blue oxidation would only stop when I turned the head down so much that the lead was hardening too much to cast with. At the same time the ladel kept getting a layer of tinning on it.
I have never heard of lead that made such oversized balls before.

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Linotype is very hard and melts at a much lower temp than pure lead. I used it quite a bit for .44 mag bullets. The bullets cast much lighter than wheelweights and were probably somewhat larger in diameter. Since they went thru a lubrisizer they ended up the correct diameter.

If the alloy you have is linotype you won't be able to scratch or dent it with a finger nail. It will cast perfect bullets that show the machining marks of the mold.

GW

 

[tomme boy]

The lead has too much antimony in it. Also, raise your temps. A cool mix and a cool mold will make a larger boolit or ball. All jacketed has antimony in the lead. So does shotgun slugs. The antimony is what gives the grainy look to the lead. If it was pure it would be nice a shiny. I use the shotgun slugs for making balls and REALS. I use pure for Maxi balls.

 

[uncmrkhd]

I'm confused, how did ya get a larger ball from the smaller mold? I'm using a 490 Lee 490 mold and the lead I just got is giving me constant 487-488 ball and they are weighing in at 174-175 gr. Was told my lead aint pure and the harder mix is whats causing things to shrink. Only shot bout 25 so far but they seem to work ok using .20 ticking. Got 50lbs of the lead so thinking of getting a 495 mold to offset the diff but not sure if its worth the cost

 

[MSW]

sounds like you have linotype... this stuff makes a tremendous cast rifle bullet - 180 grain gascheck over 3031 ...

the stuff of bambi nightmares!

(unless i'm in the woods with a GPR.
:stir:

 

[George T.]

I hope that your being safe because heavy metal contamination is a bad deal! If you flux the lead several times you can get it closer to pure lead. It is a smelly smokey mess but it will remove tin and such. I stirr mine then let it sit a while. I use any kind of bullet lube I have on hand to flux the lead. You will be suprised how many impurities will float to the top when fluxed! Geo. T.

 

[hanshi]

Nope, pure lead shrinks the most and its alloys don't shrink as much and cast larger.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

The blue sheen on the lead is an indication of the heat of the melt, not really about the purity of the mix.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Also, raise your temps. A cool mix and a cool mold will make a larger boolit or ball.

I am curious about this, could you clarify, thanks.

 

[Grullaguy]

In the time since I first posted on this subject, I have found a couple of causes that contributed to the oversize measurements.

With my digital calipers I measured the 300+ rb that were cast in 2 different sessions. During the measuring, I noticed that my Lee .490" mould casts balls out of round. If the measurement at the seam was .490" the measurement parallel to the seam would be .493". As well I have found that the temperature control on my Lee pot(or lack or it), cause additional problems. From settings from 5 down through 3 there is no appreciable decrease in heat, but below 3 on the dial, the lead temps plummet.

I have an old rusty Lyman single cavity .490" mould and with it and the temp setting left at 4, I consistently cast .490" rb the other day from the same batch of lead.

BTW, the remaining lead from that batch is now 45-70 bullets.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Sounds as though you have resolved the issues related to your casting woes.

RCBS put out a hardbound resource as well as one put out by Wlofe Publishing. Handloader Magazine (also Wolfe Publishing) had a couple issues dedicated solely to bullet casting.

IF you can get your hands on any or all of these resources it will go along way towards steering you to near perfect results with each casting session.

 

[mooman76]

Lyman has a cast bullet manual and the 4th adition cam out about a year ago or you could go to the castboolits board lots of info there.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I hope that your being safe because heavy metal contamination is a bad deal! If you flux the lead several times you can get it closer to pure lead. It is a smelly smokey mess but it will remove tin and such. I stirr mine then let it sit a while. I use any kind of bullet lube I have on hand to flux the lead. You will be suprised how many impurities will float to the top when fluxed! Geo. T.

With respect, you can get lots of other impurities out by fluxing and skimming, but the tin, antimony, and other alloying metals are well and truly dissolved in the lead and cannot be effectively separated by any technology available to us shooters.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Billnpatti]

It's all a function of the coefficient thermal expansion of both the alloy and the mould. An object changes size with changes in temperature. The greater the temperature change, the greater the change in size. Your mould will cast a ball of a certain size. That size is pretty well set but is subject to changes with temperature changes. If you cast a ball with hotter lead, the higher temperature of the lead will increase the heat of the mould causing it to be slightly larger and thus cast a slightly larger ball. Of course, this difference is affected by the mixture of the lead alloy as well. All taken together, the temperature of your mould and the temperature of your lead as well as it's alloy will all figure together to determine what size room temperature ball you will end up with from your mould.

 

[necchi]

Well said Bill! :thumbsup: :applause: :applause:

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Thanks for that,

I do understand expansion and contraction as a result of temps, that is why I asked about the statement quoted below.

Also, raise your temps. A cool mix and a cool mold will make a larger boolit or ball.

I am curious about this, could you clarify, thanks.

 

[Jamie from Alberta]

So here's a question Gents,
I came accross some pretty pure lead, scratches very easily and when I weigh my casts they're normally the proper weight or a few grs heavier. They load (round balls & REAL's) quite easily and dont require a thin patch (rb) as compared to the WW casts I've been doing for years.

So my question is, "When i am melting my new pure lead I am continuously skimming the crud off the surface and as others have mentioned the balls have a purpley mettalic colour to them. Why all this crud on top and is this lead pure?"

Thanks in advance :hatsoff:

 

[necchi]

When you get that iridescent color with pure lead it's getting towards 750-800 degrees, can't say that it too hot at that point but you can back it down a tad and still cast well.
The scum on top at that point (presuming you've skimmed the impurities prior) is actually the lead itself beginning to oxidize,

When it's that hot that wrinkley stuff on top can be just strirred back in as you dip with no harm to your casting.
The game changes when you top the pot off with new un-melted lead, as your introducing more surface impurities that need to be skimmed/drossed off.