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Welcome Mathewson rifle and horn
- Thread starter 11th corps
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You're right, that is a conventional NE rifle front sight. The rear sights are also invariably extremely fine. I can only guess what their eye sight must have been...its not likely it was better than now and even though corrective lenses existed, I don't think everyone who needed them had them.
Another form of sight that is occasionally seen is an equally tiny elongated bead filed onto a small piece of copper dovetailed into the barrel. I have two of those. They look as if the copper was driven in and the sight filed afterwards.
One of my examples is on a heavily tapered Birmingham proved, English-made rifle barrel of extremely good quality. Its quite late, made for a half stock percussion rifle. The barrel tapers from slightly over 1 1/4" at the breech to about .850 at the muzzle in about 32". What I find interesting is that an unquestionably British-made barrel has this NE style sight...it suggests that the barrel may have been imported as a component rather than as a finished gun. Its marked Lane & Read - Boston who were hardware/sporting goods merchants. They didn't make anything themselves. Nearly all Lane & Read guns I'm familiar with are either completely British made or the name is on the lock and has nothing to do with the maker of the gun.
The other copper sight is on the Mathewson-style rifle pictured in this thread.
Joe Puleo
Another form of sight that is occasionally seen is an equally tiny elongated bead filed onto a small piece of copper dovetailed into the barrel. I have two of those. They look as if the copper was driven in and the sight filed afterwards.
One of my examples is on a heavily tapered Birmingham proved, English-made rifle barrel of extremely good quality. Its quite late, made for a half stock percussion rifle. The barrel tapers from slightly over 1 1/4" at the breech to about .850 at the muzzle in about 32". What I find interesting is that an unquestionably British-made barrel has this NE style sight...it suggests that the barrel may have been imported as a component rather than as a finished gun. Its marked Lane & Read - Boston who were hardware/sporting goods merchants. They didn't make anything themselves. Nearly all Lane & Read guns I'm familiar with are either completely British made or the name is on the lock and has nothing to do with the maker of the gun.
The other copper sight is on the Mathewson-style rifle pictured in this thread.
Joe Puleo
Wow, this has been a very informative thread, I’m really interested in New England rifles, but there is just not much literature out there. Besides these diminutive front sights, and .50-.54 caliber range, can anyone tell me what are some of the basic characteristics of a New England rifle? In other words, what makes a New England rifle distinctive or unique from other regional rifle styles?
Stophel
75 Cal.
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The stocks are basic and straightforward in form. They will almost invariably have the characteristic small rounded cheekpiece. The double sideplates (the "lozenge" and the "comma") are typical, as is the barrel tenon/rod pipe pin arrangement. Cherry wood is probably the most commonly seen stock wood. Rarely carved, but often seen with wire inlay, particularly around the breech tang, and sometimes with checkered wrists.
My rifle is about .58 cal., which is quite typical. The barrel is more or less straight at close to 15/16" and is 41" long. Mine has a round bottomed stock and fowler-type hardware, but the typical "militia pattern" rifle hardware is commonly seen. On this gun of mine, the trigger is non removeable. The pin hole is not drilled all the way through the stock. I don't know if this is typical for Mass. rifles. The two sideplates are cast brass and THICK. about a quarter of an inch. The fore end is full and round and doesn't step down much at the rear rod pipe. Many more N.E. Rifles are half stocked with wood ribs. I believe the wood ribs are tenoned and pinned on just as if the barrel were in a full stock.
My rifle is about .58 cal., which is quite typical. The barrel is more or less straight at close to 15/16" and is 41" long. Mine has a round bottomed stock and fowler-type hardware, but the typical "militia pattern" rifle hardware is commonly seen. On this gun of mine, the trigger is non removeable. The pin hole is not drilled all the way through the stock. I don't know if this is typical for Mass. rifles. The two sideplates are cast brass and THICK. about a quarter of an inch. The fore end is full and round and doesn't step down much at the rear rod pipe. Many more N.E. Rifles are half stocked with wood ribs. I believe the wood ribs are tenoned and pinned on just as if the barrel were in a full stock.
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Joe was telling me he's never seen a swamped barrel on a NE rifle. Mostly straight tapered.
I'll add that the most common patchbox shape is the so-called "clock" patern. Horsehead patchboxes are also seen and are probably the 2nd most common variety. They are also the only patchboxes commonly seen that have sides. There are a few other very plain styles and they invariably do not have sides.
Trigger guards almost always have a small projection at the front...nearly all NE rifles have them and I've never seen it elsewhere.
The wooden under-ribs are also common on half stocks. They are pinned just as if they were part of the forestock and the ramrod pipes are pinned to them. I've heard it suggested it was an inexpensive means of repairing a gun with a broken forestock but I'm sure that many were originally made that way. The wooden under-rib remained popular well into the percussion era.
Locks are always British Imports of fairly good quality. These often have the name of a retailer such as Lane & Read, Allport, Ketland etc. NE makers invariably signed the barrel. I've never seen a makers name on a lock. When the barrel was signed it was often etched so that what you are seeing is an actual signature scratched through the asphaltum etching stop with a sharp object.
And...its right to say that there is virtually nothing in print abut them. Outside a handful of collectors very few prople are even aware of them...hence the odd term I've heard used of being a "New England Kentucky Rifle"....
I'll add one last point that betrays some of my own prejudices and that is that NE rifles are always of fairly good quality. They are often plain but it is clear that the market required a high standard of fit and finish but wasn't particularly interested in flashy decoration.
Joe Puleo
Trigger guards almost always have a small projection at the front...nearly all NE rifles have them and I've never seen it elsewhere.
The wooden under-ribs are also common on half stocks. They are pinned just as if they were part of the forestock and the ramrod pipes are pinned to them. I've heard it suggested it was an inexpensive means of repairing a gun with a broken forestock but I'm sure that many were originally made that way. The wooden under-rib remained popular well into the percussion era.
Locks are always British Imports of fairly good quality. These often have the name of a retailer such as Lane & Read, Allport, Ketland etc. NE makers invariably signed the barrel. I've never seen a makers name on a lock. When the barrel was signed it was often etched so that what you are seeing is an actual signature scratched through the asphaltum etching stop with a sharp object.
And...its right to say that there is virtually nothing in print abut them. Outside a handful of collectors very few prople are even aware of them...hence the odd term I've heard used of being a "New England Kentucky Rifle"....
I'll add one last point that betrays some of my own prejudices and that is that NE rifles are always of fairly good quality. They are often plain but it is clear that the market required a high standard of fit and finish but wasn't particularly interested in flashy decoration.
Joe Puleo
Stophel
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Mine certainly would never have won any beauty prizes!!! I would almost call the work around the lock panels/breechtang "amateurish", but then I rather think it would be best to call it "quick" work. It's all cattycornered with the side panels kind of "shifted" out of place... It was a "serviceable" rifle.
The stock is the natural cherry color. It is NOT oil finished. The grain is filled (apparently) with a seedlac/shellac (an oil varnish might have been applied as a top coat, but is long worn off). You can see a couple of spots on the stock that have been filed/scrubbed off to clean wood, and these spots are very dark and even purplish, from either oil being applied, or just from handling.
Just a moment, and I'll have photos up of the little stud front sight...
The stock is the natural cherry color. It is NOT oil finished. The grain is filled (apparently) with a seedlac/shellac (an oil varnish might have been applied as a top coat, but is long worn off). You can see a couple of spots on the stock that have been filed/scrubbed off to clean wood, and these spots are very dark and even purplish, from either oil being applied, or just from handling.
Just a moment, and I'll have photos up of the little stud front sight...
Stophel
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Here is the tiny stud front sight. It is hard to see, but then, there ain't much there to see anyway! It is slightly longer than it is wide.
The sheet brass nosecap was cut and folded down to compensate for the busted off wood on the fore end. It is open ended and held on the bottom with a TINY little brass rivet.
The sheet brass nosecap was cut and folded down to compensate for the busted off wood on the fore end. It is open ended and held on the bottom with a TINY little brass rivet.
Is your rifle a converted fint one or was it made as percussion? Rifles made as percussion are rarer, I suspect partly because styles were changing and the identifiable NE percussion rifle usually has a shorter barrel, is almost always half stocked and the clock patchboxes and unique trigger guard lost their popularity. A real percussion one is offered for sale on this site in the "for sale" section. I'd guess it dates from around 1835-1840 because it still has the patchbox and trigger guard.
Joe Puleo
Joe Puleo
Stophel
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Converted from flint. The lock is marked "W&G Chance", which I think is an English maker. The conversion was done using the original flint cock, with a percussion cap striking thingy put into the jaws. It seems to be brazed in place. I have the drum and nipple on my workbench...somewhere...
I had originally intended to reconvert it to flint, but then thought better of it. I'm leavin' it be.
The lock is much more attractive than so many other locks of this period. The squiggly engraved lines are kept to a minimum.
I had originally intended to reconvert it to flint, but then thought better of it. I'm leavin' it be.
The lock is much more attractive than so many other locks of this period. The squiggly engraved lines are kept to a minimum.
I had musket with the same lock marking. ...there wouldn't be any difference in the locks used on most militia muskets and rifles.
I'm glad you chose to keep it as is...I never re-convert, in fact I don't believe its historically justifiable to tamper with something that has cme down to us as it was last actually used. I especially like those conversions. They're ugly but absolutely real. I've had them with both the little bit clamped in the jaws and with it brazed in. I even had one rifle that was signed on the hammer by the gunmaker who converted it.
Joe P
I'm glad you chose to keep it as is...I never re-convert, in fact I don't believe its historically justifiable to tamper with something that has cme down to us as it was last actually used. I especially like those conversions. They're ugly but absolutely real. I've had them with both the little bit clamped in the jaws and with it brazed in. I even had one rifle that was signed on the hammer by the gunmaker who converted it.
Joe P
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Update on this rifle.
I was just contacted via email by the owner, not sure how they got my email but one only has to search Welcome Mathewson and my page pops up lol. Anyway I was told the rifle was for sale for the right price...if I was interested. I laughed like hell knowing full well I could never afford it. I politely declined.
I was just contacted via email by the owner, not sure how they got my email but one only has to search Welcome Mathewson and my page pops up lol. Anyway I was told the rifle was for sale for the right price...if I was interested. I laughed like hell knowing full well I could never afford it. I politely declined.
rafterob
62 Cal.
The appraisal value was based on the collection of the rifle, horn and ledger. All of them containing the name. An unprecedented collection, which increases the value.
Thats interesting. I haven't been offered it but, even if I had the money, I would far rather participate in an open and well advertised auction. I'd be surprised if the whole thing brought 20% of Bill Guthman's estimate. For the sake of the family I hope I'm wrong... but I've bought 4 NE rifles this year, all for less than 1M each. Admittedly none are of that quality or provenance (although 2 are signed) but the difference between 1M and 120M (which was Bill's # from the Antiques Road Show) is too great... if the rifle and all the stuff brought 25M... it would be eight to ten times the likely price of the rifle alone. Heck, if it were a Pennsylvania/Kentucky rifle, horn and day-book with equally good provenance it would be hard pressed to generate that sort of money and there are 100 Kentucky collectors for every NE collector. But...I wish them luck.
