Welders

[ohio ramrod]

Hi
Once you get a wire welder and Oxy-Acetylene , you'll need to get a metal lathe and a mill also. :wink:

As a retired tool and die worker I have the arc welder, oxy act, wire welder, lathe (two ) bridgeport mills (two) but I never use the welders on gun work! But I do use the torch to harden parts.As to the woodworking tools I have a complete furniture building shop with too many tools to list! :hmm:

 

[Copperclad]

Hi
I guess that all a guy really needs is a VISA card :grin:

 

[tallbear]

If you are willing to take the time and effort to learn the tools and techniques of "The Old Dead Guys" you will find you have no need for welders,milling machines and similar modern tools.There are very few who are skilled enough with these modern tools to made beliveable interpertations of the original American Longrifles we seek to emulate using modern methods. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Mitch Yates

 

[Copperclad]

Hi
I really enjoyed watching the "Colonial Gunsmith" video that used to be on YouTube. The Young gentleman builds a rifle from scratch. All with the tools of the time.

The one thing that I do , that is just like he does , I use every possible resource at my disposal to the best advantage I can.

Whether its lack of knowledge or tools , it just limits your options. You can always make up for the one with the other :grin:

Just pity the poor soul that has neither. :hatsoff:

 

[M. De Land]

I did as well,watching it twice completely through. This is what is meant about gun assembly in contrast to gun making with malice toward none. Making the parts as well as putting them together. Gussler has a real gift that was apparently rather common two centuries ago.
I particularly enjoyed the work and skill involved in barrel forge welding and the making of the lock.
Tapered screws, hand filed is another fascination for me. Mike D.

 

[tallbear]

Copper
I don't dispute that there are some processes in building a longifle can be done by modern machines or modern methods.I do dispute that these machines and process's are neccesary or desireable.In most cases the final product of modern machines and methods fall short in their dupilication of Longrifles done by hiostorically correct methods.The overall architechural shapes,surface textures and artistry of American Longrifles cannot easily be replicated with modern tools and methods and are much more convincingly replicated by historically correct methods.For example a gunstock ground out by a disk sander will always look out of place next to a stock shaped and finished in an historically correct manner.Careful study of the original guns and methods of the original makers are far more important and nessacary to the creation of a quality longrifle than the amount of money you can spend on modern machines.

 

[tallbear]

Colin
Please refer to my intial post.

There are very few who are skilled enough with these modern tools

You happen to have the skill using modern methods to get a quality finished product making use of modern methods.You must admit that there are not many who have the abilty to get the same results that you get using the same methods and you obviously have dedicated yourself to your craft.You have developed a proficiency with modern tools that is no less impressive than those that seek proficiency with historically correct methods and tools. I am in no way trying to disparage those that use modern tools and methods.Only that most that try to dupicate historically correct firarms particuarly American Longrifles with modern tools and methods usually fall short.

Mitch

 

[Copperclad]

Careful study of the original guns and methods of the original makers are far more important and nessacary to the creation of a quality longrifle than the amount of money you can spend on modern machines.

Hi Mitch
I couldn't agree more. I also agree with your saying that there are very few that have the skill and patience to carry it off properly , regardless of the tools.

Best regards :thumbsup:

 

[M. De Land]

Personally I'm very glad of and wish to be encouraging of old style tools and techniques so that they will not be lost. It is one of the reasons I embarked on learning how to case color/harden using wood and bone charcoal. The modern ovens used make it more of a precisely repeatable skill than an art form because of being able to accurately measure the heating and time.
I appreciate the advantages and flexibilities provided my modern tooling and methods.
I also believe they do not need to be mutually exclusive , both have a place in modern muzzle loading and should be seen in the light of being supportive of each other, in my opinion. Mike D.

 

[jdkerstetter]

....they do not need to be mutually exclusive , both have a place in modern muzzle loading*.....Mike D.

*Emphasis mine

No offense Mike, but this site isn't about modern muzzleloading. Right?

To all: What's it say in the banner at the top? "Keeping Tradition Alive", I believe.

We don't allow the discussion of modern muzzleloaders and other firearms, yet here we find ourselves again, debating modern methods of constuction.

I'm just pointing out the absurd. You guys can continue now. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Copperclad]

debating modern methods of constuction.

LOL, or debating it over the internet :grin:

 

[jdkerstetter]

Well, there is that. :haha: ....though I don't use my computer to build 'em either. :wink: Enjoy, J.D.

 

[M. De Land]

Your correct, I didn't mean modern methodology necessarily but rather traditional muzzle loaders being manufactured in our time by either method.
No offense taken and appreciate the chance to clarify what I was trying to say. Mike D.

 

[M. De Land]

Not to mention all the popular and high end locks mostly made of investment cast parts! I guess it's just the degree of traditionalism that is in question. :grin: Mike D.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Hi
I guess that all a guy really needs is a VISA card :grin:

Actualy tool and die work always was "feast or famine" so I started the furniture/cabinet shop to cover the famine periods. It took over fourty years to acquire my tools and not a single one was bought on credit! Buying on credit when things are tight is not the way to get ahead. :hmm:

 

[Copperclad]

Hi ohio ramrod
My apologies , I should have scrolled up to the top of the thread to hit reply. I keep forgetting that the reply button at the bottom of the page will direct the reply at the last poster.

It was just a general comment that all anyone really needs to "build" a rifle nowadays is a VISA card.

I didn't intend it to be directed at you.

best regards :hatsoff:

 

[M. De Land]

Yup, true story, and all mine were bought the same way over about the same time and many of them were not new by any means. Just re-bearinged my 60 year old lathe a couple years ago.
Most of my best files, draw knifes, spoke shave,chisels ,hand planes , coping and back saws etc. were bought used. MD

 

[Copperclad]

I'm in the same boat ,Forty years to assemble a modest machine shop .
And now I enjoy spending a week scratch building my own locks , as apposed to spending $160.00 + to have one dropped off by the big brown santa .
Of coarse I do get informed that milling the pan from steel billet is not PC/HC. :wink:

best regards

 

[tallbear]

Some of you are missing the point.It is not the use of machines that raise objections.It is the suggestion that a high tech shop outfitted with, wire welder, Oxy-Acetylene , a metal lathe and a mill are nessacary to built American Longrifles.

Sorry to have intruded into the disscusion,once again it seems I have stumbled into the wrong forum.Could have sworn it said Traditional somewhere around here.
Damn hard to read the computer by candle light.Carry on!!!

Mitch Yates

 

[M. De Land]

Could it be possible that you are missing the point Mitch? None of you traditional folks are actually 100 percent traditional. Most all use parts made by modern machines and technologies to assemble 17th century reproductions and claim traditionalism.
If one wants to stake out ground on that plane than one has to follow in Gussler's and others like him, foot steps. Virtually none do now days!
While I can agree and be supportive of quasi-traditional methods and means it does become a bit tiring to listen to the high brow attitude that really is not truly authentic anyway, by most espousing them. Mike D.