were modern style flintlock guns ever pc

[ericrutters]

was there ever a time in history that rifles such as my traditions deerhunter 50 flint or similar style rifles were produced /used if so when and where were such rifles common place its a 24" barrel

 

[Shine]

Back in the 20th century they were fairly common. :wink:

 

[tg]

Most of the production guns are a combination of the old and new usually with a drop in the stock that allows a taller sight or scope and are made to be as familiar to the hunter who has been using a CF as possible. They are not "taken" from any particular gun from the past and are basicaly generic. They probably can be considered somewhat traditional in looks and function but seldom PC/HC to the pre 1850 era, but they do fill a nich for those starting the game or just looking to use a gun that loads from the front or have no interest in the historical aspect of ML's. once one gets to then pont of improving all the componemet so they are vastly superior in range and accuracy to the origials and can perform alomgside a 45/70 sharps then we have to ask the question...why are we here and not on a single shot gun forum, some will argue till the cows come home that loading from the front is the only thing that defines a ML, but most see the hobby in much greater depth.Some claim a line of heritage of the short halfstocks to what they call the California guns of the mid 19th century bit upon close examination it is pretty clear that there is only a cosmetic resemblance, mainly short barrels and occasionaly a similar piece of furniture.Someone once told me that even a blind pig will find an acorn now and then, this likley applies here. None of the manufactures have ever claimed that these guns were of any influence on their current designs,and this is treally a strong point(I have asked several over the years same for the modern bullets) and hitting the bullseye by accident is a pretty sad way of making them fit anyway. All that said there is nothing wrong with the productiion guns made over the years it just seems hard for a lot of folks to accept them for what they are from a historical perspective and continue to try and argue them into the gun history books.Some of the percussion guns are likley closer than any of the flintlock ones.There are some that would classify as replicas mostly military and the 1803 and 1792 but we are getting away from production guns here.

 

[rcbelding]

was there ever a time in history that rifles such as my traditions deerhunter 50 flint or similar style rifles were produced /used

That's a complex question. Exact duplicates? Nah.

However ...

Barrel length has wandered all over the place during the black powder muzzleloader era. Short barrels, like 24-28 inches long, don't burn adequately powerful powder charges completely. Just shoot a 28 inch long barrel at night, the result is spectacular but wasteful. The, to my eyes, absurd 44 inch long barrels may have theoretically burnt powder charges more completely, but I feel fashion was the more likely reason for their use.

Were there "modern" stock dimensions, those designed specifically for open sights, in use in the past? Any good 18th century jaeger rifle has these, and maybe many 'English Style" rifles. Its just silly to look for the stock dimensions needed for a scope sight in even mid-19th century guns.

In summary, if you want a modern performing rifle, for open sights, made along traditional lines, go with a jaeger rifle.
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Warning on powder container - 'Always make sure no embers are smouldering in the barrel' So I ALWAYS blow down the barrel after each discharge.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Briefly put, it is a 'kinda', 'sorta', 'something like' what they had back then.
Sans the plastic stock of course.

 

[rafterob]

I think your style in Flintlock would be hard to pass in the PC arena. The closest style would be considered a "plains" style, which became popular in the mid-late percussion era. If you worked the stock enough you could possibly pass it off as an English sporting rifle. But, unless you are reenacting,don't worry about it. If you want to seriously do the reenacting thing, a more appropriate rifle is in order.

 

[ericrutters]

thanks guys lots of good info there gave me a few anwsers now i know a little more about short stock short barrel guns and where they came from

 

[roundball]

was there ever a time in history that rifles such as my traditions deerhunter 50 flint or similar style rifles were produced /used if so when and where were such rifles common place its a 24" barrel

Here's a fairly decent MLF summary:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/248316/

 

[Dphar]

was there ever a time in history that rifles such as my traditions deerhunter 50 flint or similar style rifles were produced /used if so when and where were such rifles common place its a 24" barrel

Shot barreled rifles, less than 30" were common in Europe.
See the short rifles in "Rifles of Colonial America" Vol 1. Up to about rifle #15.
Of go to the NRA National Firearms Museum and search German/English Flintlock Jaeger Rifle .

These short barreled rifles were used against the long barreled American Rifle of the Rev-War era and found wanting in most instances.
Mostly because of the belief that the rifling should make one turn in the length of barrel. This resulted in ridiculous twist rates in some guns. The American rifle with its longer barrel generally have twists in the 4 foot range which allows heavier powder charges.
This carried on to the cartridge era. If you find "The Sporting Rifle and its Projectiles" by Forsythe and download it. It will explain the problems.
The existence of short barreled rifles does not make the TC PC or HC. There are other factors.

Dan