What am I doing wrong?

[Travis Gregory]

Every time I clean my CVA rifle the patch either comes off the jag at the breech end of the barrel or the patch and jag get stuck. How do I clean and oil my rifle without the patch or patch/jag getting stuck?

 

[flaming canvas]

Have to ask the obvious question first. Are the patches wet?

 

[Travis Gregory]

It doesnt seem to matter whether the patches are wet, dry, or oily. Ive gotten all 3 hung at the bottom in the last 2 days. Compressed air blast gets them out but I dont have a compressor at home and have to take the barrel to work with me. It is a real inconvience.

 

[Goldhunter]

Have you tried a different jag? I have one that does the same thing; I always loose the patch. I have to use a different jag. It's for the same caliber, just a different manufacture. It must be just slightly bigger.

 

[Travis Gregory]

I have 2 differint .50 cal jags. One always looses the patch at the bottom and the other gets stuck with the patch at the bottom. Is it necessary to run the patch all the way to the bottom when using hot soapy water to clean or can you stop short and achieve the same results letting the soap and water do the work? Also, after using the water what is the best method to dry the barrel if not using a dry patch all the way up and down the bore? Same question for lubing the bore to keep it from rusting?

 

[J.D.]

Most jags are too large,so turn .010-.020 off the diameter of the jag.

Hmmm, the jag getting stuck only at the breech?

Maybe the liner or drum is protruding into the breech.

Remove said liner/drum and measure the length of the threads and compare that measurement to the thickness of the barrel wall. File or grind the liner/drum to the thickness of the barrel wall and reinstall.

 

[crockett]

Yeah something must be grabbing the patch, you could also try lapping the bore to smooth it out.

A few years ago a got a cheap CVA rifle with a plastic half stock for a present. Actually it shoots pretty good but kicks pretty hard. I've never had any trouble losing patches. I use hot soapy water followed by dry patches. The heated up barrel sort of dries itself out.

 

[Zonie]

Before you consider removing your drum on a CVA or Traditions rifle you should look at this post.
DRUM REMOVAL

 

[leserz]

i am a novice to ML. but i have a cva sharp shooter that i bought used i had one heck of a time with it when i started to clean the bore. the jag and patch would get stuck when i pushed it all the way down i had to sprinkle some powder in the clean out hole and shoot the darn thing out about 5-6 timed i even tugged on it so hard i pulled the end off a knight ram rod. i was fit to be tied. i did not have a drop down the barrel light so i improvised i took out the nipple and the clean out screw then i took my mini mag light unscrewed the end off like you would to use it as a candle. stuck the bulb in the clean out hole then i could see all the way to the breach . then i could see there was a ring a inch or two from the breach i took a bore brush warped some 000 steel wool around the brush used a bunch of PB blaster on the steel wool then chucked the ram rod in my electric drill on a low speed i honed if you call it that up and down the last 3 or 4 inches ahead of the breach. did that for about 10 seconds .then used the mag light and the ring was now gone. try the light trick see if there is a ring back there. it cured my problem with stuck jag patches. not sure i would try that on a rare or expensive gun. but it did work for me. going to get one of them drop down lights and one of the co2 dislodger things. some time

 

[Travis Gregory]

I may have the same problem as you had. about 3-4 inches from the breech (about where the bullet would seat)I can feel a rough spot while im cleaning. This seems to be where Im losing the patches. Ill try the brush and steel woo trick and see if that helps. Thanks evryone for your help.

 

[boar]

I have found that the tapered jags will lose a patch quicker then the flat nose ones. You need to buy a patch worm. A dry patch is easy to stick at the bottom. I have used a patch on wire brush jag that is used on shotguns,with WD 40,hard to lose off. I have tied patches to the rod with dental floss when using a homemade rod and a hand cut jag on end. Have a doz CVA"S and no problem. I would do the bore light to check the bottom of barrel. You can also pick up a losted patch with you ball puller jag. Its what I use most of the time. Dilly

 

[Poor Private]

2 Things.
1-I never use a jag in cleaning my ,58 cal Enfield.the ramrod comes with a slotted end. You just push a patch through it and clean. I use a slotted end on my cleanout rod for my Zouve also. I have had no problems.
2-What I use for a bore light is a "Nite Bright". It's a tiny light that goes in a bobber so you can fish at night. Comes in a couple of colors, red and yellow. Will even fit down in a .22, cost is less than 4 bucks. lasts 20 plus hours. That don't seem like alot but you only use it 30 seconds at a time anyway.

 

[renovato]

I may have the same problem as you had. about 3-4 inches from the breech (about where the bullet would seat)I can feel a rough spot while im cleaning. This seems to be where Im losing the patches. Ill try the brush and steel woo trick and see if that helps. Thanks evryone for your help.

Sounds like a crud ring alright. That's especially bad with some of the substitute powders, 777 being most notorious for it. It might take you trying a couple different jags to find one that fits well and grips a patch too.

 

[ohio ramrod]

One simple thought, what size cleaning patches are you using , and what size is the jag? A cleaning patch should be quite a bit larger than a shooting patch. The fit of the jag and patch should be loose going down the barrel and tighter coming out due to bunching up of the patch. To tight of a patch and jag fit will push the fouling ahead of the patch into the breach where it will pug up. You want the patch loose going in, tighter coming out, but not so tight that you cann't pull it out.I use cleaning jags about .040 inch under bore size and .010 - .014 thick cleaning patches.The cleaning patches are rectangular about 1.5 inches x 2 inches. I said about because they are ripped as I go not cut.

 

[Zonie]

Just a little story about cleaning patches.

Years ago when I got a .50 caliber CVA I thought to myself, "Boy, with a bore that big I bet it will need a great big cleaning patch!." so, I got out my 12 guage patches and ran one down the bore on a jag.
As I tried to retrieve it it moved about 1/2 inch and locked up. It took the better part of an hour to get that dam patch out of the bore. (It only came out after I poured water down the barrel and let it soak).
I tried it again with the 12 guage patch and got it stuck again.

It was only then that I realized that there was so much material on the patch that it was wadding up and forming a semi solid block which locked the jag in the bore.

After I started using .44 cal pistol cleaning patches I never had the problem come up again.

I use these .44 cal pistol cleaning patches in all of my muzzleloaders including my .577 and .58 cal rifled muskets and they work great.

 

[fallaloosa]

I would say lose the jag and get a worm, very hard to lose a patch. I've never used jags for that reason. :v

 

[Stumpkiller]

Screw one corner of the patch under the shoulder of the jag. ;-)

Or even poke a hole in one corner of the patch with a nail or awl and thread on the jag through it.

Hey, I should charge $15 for these gems.

 

[fallaloosa]

yeah that'd work too :thumbsup:

 

[MagKarl]

Have you tried cleaning that barrel with a brush yet? I'd try that if you haven't.

 

[Zonie]

A word of caution about using a brush in a muzzleloader.

Most of the brass or bronze bristle brushes are made for use in a modern rifle where it is easy to push the brush thru the bore.
In the case of a Traditional muzzleloader, the breech plug is seldom if ever removed so it is impossible to push the brush all the way thru the bore.

Because the bristles bend back towards the muzzle when the brush is pushed down the bore its bent bristles keep the brush from being pulled back out of the barrel.

The way to get around this self locking feature is to rotate the cleaning rod clockwise when the brush is at the bottom of the bore.
While rotating the rod and brush, apply a slight upwards pressure. When the brush slips, the bent bristles will move sideways and the upward pressure will cause them to bend so that they are pointing towards the breech.
In this position the brush will not resist being pulled back out of the bore.

Another solution is to use one of those brushes that has little bent loops on it instead of stiff bristles. They don't tend to lock up as badly.

While I'm on my soapbox, I also must caution that there are some cheap bronze brushes which have the bristles in a sleeve that is pressed onto the cleaning rod attachment.
These are notorious for having that pressed on piece come loose or pull off, leaving the bristles
down in the bottom of the bore.
Because the brush is porous, the usual method of clearing a bore like "shooting it out with a small powder charge", using compressed air, using a CO2 ball remover or even using a high pressure grease gun will not move the stuck brush.
Be very cautious in using a brush to clean a Traditional muzzleloader.