What are the advantages of 3f vs 2f powder?

[Wes/Tex]

After much trial and error
Gus

And that's what it's all about! :wink: I've seen two identical rifles, less than 10 numbers apart in their serial numbers, prefer totally different powders, patches or ball sizes. You can never make assumptions about what any gun is going to prefer.

Back to the original poster's question, FFFg I find to produce less fouling with less powder for the same velocity adn often better accuracy. While only true in some cases, enough have happened to make me start with FFFg first. The old rule of thumb was cut back 20% when switching from FFg to FFFg...though 10% to 15% usually worked. In the past several decades, I buy only the finer grain powder adn use it for everything from .31 to .62 which is my range of toys. The one thing to always keep in mind is that accuracy beats velocity every time. :wink: :thumbsup:

 

[George]

After much trial and error I found that barrel likes 42 1/2 grains of 3fffg for an accuracy load.

...and a half? You measure that with an antler tip measure? :haha:

Spence

 

[Wes/Tex]

...and a half? You measure that with an antler tip measure? :haha:

Spence

Was going to point that out, :rotf: but finally figured his sense of pour might be superior to mine!

 

[Tom Compton]

I use FFg in everything from .32 thru 12 ga as well as pistols and prime with FFFF. Two separate chrono tests of 100 shots with each powder showed 2-3 velocity spikes of 150-300 fps using FFF that didn't occur with FFg.

 

[Artificer]

...and a half? You measure that with an antler tip measure? :haha:

Spence

Was going to point that out, :rotf: but finally figured his sense of pour might be superior to mine!

Nope, not with an antler or similar period powder measure. I actually glued a modern adjustable powder measure with the "cut off top" so it would through that charge after I found that charge the best by weighing the charges on a balance measure. At some "Non Period" shoots, I used pre-measured charges in vials.

Gus

 

[George]

Our experiences are apparently different. There is no way I could consistently measure 1/2 grain of powder in any way except with a digital scale. Not with a voume measure, not on my best day.

I'm curious... what happens to accuracy if you shoot 42 gr. or 43 gr. instead of 42 1/2 gr.? :grin:

Spence

 

[Col. Batguano]

Accepting that as fact, we ought to think about WHY smaller grained powders produce less fouling (when made by the same manufacturer, and presumably the same chemical formula). Because of the increased surface area more of it will be burning at the same time, and have a greater chance of being totally consumed during the reaction / burn period, because more surface area will be burning at the same time. It would be an interesting science experiment to burn an equal mass of them (using only the energy from the powder itself burning) and see what the residual left behind actually weighs. Then, repeat the same experiment and leave the powder that burns in a petri dish at the burn temperature for a few minutes and weigh the ashes. My suspicion is that the remains will be substantially similar in weight.

 

[necchi]

It's been done, but I'm not going to dig through all this again to find it.
If you guy's really want to know about black powder this is the best known source of Bill Knight's dissertations; http://www.laflinandrand.com/page3.htm

 

[Artificer]

Our experiences are apparently different. There is no way I could consistently measure 1/2 grain of powder in any way except with a digital scale. Not with a voume measure, not on my best day.

I'm curious... what happens to accuracy if you shoot 42 gr. or 43 gr. instead of 42 1/2 gr.? :grin:

Spence

As I'm sure you remember; there were no digital reloading scales in the 70's. Mine was a precision Lyman or RCBS Beam Balance scale back then. I had both, but can't remember which I got first. I was already used to measuring tiny amounts of powder because I reloaded for .38, .357, .45 Auto Rim and .45 ACP (some for 2700 Bullseye Competition) in those days and accuracy loads for Bullseye and Unique powders in 1/2 grain increments were not uncommon for those calibers. That is why I wound up trying 1/2 grain load increments in my flint rifle as I was trying to get it to shoot the best it could.

When using 42 or 43 grain loads, the groups opened up measurably at 25 yards. I was trying for the smallest group possible because we often shot at taught strings at those distances back then. This is the only BP rifle I ever ran across that really needed testing by 1/2 grain increments, though.

Gus

 

[amcmullen]

My traditions gets better ignition with 3f. That's mostly because of the small vent liner it has. 2F will sometimes get blocked at the cone ime. I can feel it when I pick the vent. My TC on the other hand will readily eat anything

 

[Wes/Tex]

Very probably true. I based my comment above on field and range shooting and the residue I had to deal with between, or at teh end of a string of, shots. Total residue weight may be similar but hae always found it far easier to deal with.