What brands would you not recommend and why?

[mikesto44]

I build my own and so far I'm satisfied with the results. I'm not claiming to be any expert gun builder. But when I load it, prim it it goes boom and deer goes down...
I to got burned by a custom gun builder years ago. That is why I started making my own. It is not hard to do...Just need lots of patience...

 

[Dialcannon]

I am a new ML owner; a Pedersoli Frontier Percussion Rifle. There is most definitely a learning curve. I am considering a Flintlock pistol. In this world there are fixers and breakers. I have a perfectionist friend who is the fixer. I’ve been looking at some of the do it yourself kits; expensive, and not so much. I am asking myself, “could I build that?” I think it is getting everything to fit correctly on the stock that concerbs me.
Thank you for this thread.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Pedersoli can put out some real junk. Their quality control is lackluster.

That said, when you get one that was properly made, they can be very good guns. One of my favorite pistols was made by them and it was a fantastic gun, a smoothbore .54 caliber percussion Harper Ferry horse pistol. I kick myself in the *** for selling it.

If buying a Pedersoli, buy only from a good dealer such as Dixie Gun Works that is good about returns, as you might very well need it. Inspect it thoroughly for issues.

With that said, in recent years, Pedersoli prices have soarn. They were always pricey but now it’s out of hand. You can get a Kibler kit for the same price as a Pedersoli and something like the new Woodsrunner is such an easy kit anyone can make one, and you’ll have a FAR better end product than any Peder product.

 

[Nor Cal Mikie]

That's kinda like the most beautiful girl in the world. Someone out there hates her guts!!
What one person likes, the next thinks they're junk. You gunna shoot it or gripe about it?
If YOU like it, that's all that counts.

 

[dylan84]

I kind of like cheaper rifles and pistols as I am starting out with muzzle loaders and cap/ball pistols. It forces me to figure out the workings of all of it to repair and tweak things as needed to function properly. Then when I finally make up my mind what kit to build I will be ready!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I own some Pedersoli products. When I bought them I knew some people who thought the sun rose and set on Pedersoli..., but in my case some were very good, and one was quite bad.... poorly fitted parts, and bad frizzen.

I still own a CVA caplock. Not authentic, and the least expensive rifle I could get in 1982 that was legal for muzzleloader deer in Maryland. I still own that one, and it was made in Spain and looks a lot like a caplock rifle currently offered by Traditions. I just bought a vintage CVA SxS caplock kit in 12 gauge with a second set of SxS .50 barrels. Looking forward to finishing that, yet I know folks who won't touch a CVA.

I own a Dixie Gun Works Tennessee rifle, but it has an aftermarket lock fitted.

I was asked by my coworker who sits in the cubicle next to me about a flintlock, and suggested the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. It arrived with a cracked stock BUT was quickly replaced. He smacked his first black powder deer with it in PA a few weeks later. That was his word..., "smacked"... seems he thought I was exaggerating when I said a well hit deer when using a patched round ball will drop and stay put.

I own several Thomspon Center rifles, and they all shoot well, caplock and flintlock.

I bought a Traditions long rifle, and promptly retro-fitted the lock with an aftermarket lock. The **** on the factory lock was bent in shipping, and the vendor said it was a Traditions problem and Traditions said it was a vendor problem.... haven't owned one since.

My favorite rifle is a semi-custom Cabin Creek rifle. That's a made rifle, not really a brand name.

LD

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Many don’t have the skills to build their own guns and have to rely on ‘production’ guns.

one were to buy a truck that just wasn’t up to their standards, they should just ‘build their own’, and not rely on ‘production trucks’ (or vehicles), correct? Plenty of folks out there building their own vehicles….

Anyone can build a rifle. I did. My stock looks a lot better than the metal, because I was a wood worker for many years. The rest I had a long time builder mentor me.
Do you think that in the 1700s they made guns in factories? Nope. Even at harper's Ferry, of the 20 smiths and helpers, not any 5 gun parts worked together, when they first started.
No one then or now should go out and try and make one unless you have the skill set.
Seek out others who have, and learn.

Two things I wanted to do before I die. Build a rifle for my grandson. Done.
That took 5 months of 4 hours a week at a master builder's shop.
He told me he hated working with black walnut, but my stock looked like furniture to him.
He had a $600 black walnut rifle he built, and hated. My bud bought it, gave me the wood, and now it looks like mine, furniture grade.

Is my rifle a custom build, yes. Is it worth $1000s, no its not that perfect. But it is mine.

Build my own car out of other cars parts. Done.
Bought a 1930 Model A and a 1954 Merc Monterey and made one car out of the parts.
Been working on cars since I was 9. I still had help welding the frame, and doing body work.
Yet my body man said he had never seen a filled roof that did not pop going down the road.
I encapsulated all the wood in resin, just like I used to on boat hulls. The wood did not give, the metal roof did not pop.
His metal working and my wood working made a well made roof of a car that never had one.

Anything is possible, if yo set your mind to it.

 

[SOLANCO]

Not necessarily.....

You do not always get what you pay for. You very rarely get what you do not pay for.

 

[jim mencken]

have 3 traditions guns 1851 navy 44cal x2 and a st louis hawken percussion no problems at all. i messed up tthe threads in the bolster and traditions replaced it no charge even paid return shipping

 

[SOLANCO]

I own some Pedersoli products. When I bought them I knew some people who thought the sun rose and set on Pedersoli..., but in my case some were very good, and one was quite bad.... poorly fitted parts, and bad frizzen.

I still own a CVA caplock. Not authentic, and the least expensive rifle I could get in 1982 that was legal for muzzleloader deer in Maryland. I still own that one, and it was made in Spain and looks a lot like a caplock rifle currently offered by Traditions. I just bought a vintage CVA SxS caplock kit in 12 gauge with a second set of SxS .50 barrels. Looking forward to finishing that, yet I know folks who won't touch a CVA.

I own a Dixie Gun Works Tennessee rifle, but it has an aftermarket lock fitted.

I was asked by my coworker who sits in the cubicle next to me about a flintlock, and suggested the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. It arrived with a cracked stock BUT was quickly replaced. He smacked his first black powder deer with it in PA a few weeks later. That was his word..., "smacked"... seems he thought I was exaggerating when I said a well hit deer when using a patched round ball will drop and stay put.

I own several Thomspon Center rifles, and they all shoot well, caplock and flintlock.

I bought a Traditions long rifle, and promptly retro-fitted the lock with an aftermarket lock. The **** on the factory lock was bent in shipping, and the vendor said it was a Traditions problem and Traditions said it was a vendor problem.... haven't owned one since.

My favorite rifle is a semi-custom Cabin Creek rifle. That's a made rifle, not really a brand name.

LD

I do not believe you can do any better than the Emigs at Cabin Creek. They are top notch.

 

[user 53891]

Mustang65 I do agree to a certain point but I think what Phil and I are pointing out is that many problems faced by newbies with their first ML guns are product specific as opposed to the "I got my ram rod stuck" type of post. My personal experience was buy a T/C Hawken in the 1970's and have no rifle problems at all in 50 years (other than the stuck ram rod). Then buy a CVA Colonial pistol that had the lock returned to CVA 4 times until they got it right. This was the typical reputation of those brands at the time although the CVA problem was worse than normal.

Well I guess, but not really. I only bought chevy's ffrom the '60's to the 90's because Fords were supposed to be nothing but trouble. Found out it was pure luck. With any product you are going to get good and bad, it happens. Depends on how many report the good experiences and the bad experiences. It's not a definite, that just because for 50 years your no problem with your T/C, doesn't mean others didn't have a problem with a T/C. Could be most CVA locks were good and you got the bad one. Like I said "it's a crap shoot on anything". I guess we could argue this for, oh say another 5-6 pages, but the truth is I'm right

 

[rp77469]

I have a Pedersoli Bess. The lock is terrific, faster than any of the three custom flint rifles I own. So far no problems at all with it.

My all time favorite inexpensive rifle is any of the three US made CVA Mt. Rifles I have owned. The first, a .50 cal kit I built in the late 70's has processed over 100 pounds of Goex over the years and would be first choice for any deer hunt. The .45 caliber I gave to my elder son as his first muzzleloader. The third is an unfired .50 factory built MR I found at a gun show. Been saving it to use when I shot out the barrel on my kit gun. Not going to happen in my life time. I've heard of problems with the Spanish locks on later models, but it's always posts made on some forum. I don't recall ever meeting anyone at a shoot or rendezvous who actually had a problem with them.

I have a CVA/Traditions Hawken kit with 2 barrels I have never got around to building. The hardware quality does not equal the old MR kits and I really hate those modern sights. I have two Lyman GPR in .54 I am less than impressed with. One came with a crown that only covered half the muzzle, the other side being untouched. Neither is as accurate or precise as the 40+ YO MR after multiple bench sessions. Love my ROA though.

 

[Dialcannon]

My Pedersoli frontier rifle was special order by someone some years ago. Found it in a gun shop while I was having other guns repaired. Seems to be OK

 

[64Springer]

I bought a left hand L&R Queen Anne lock for a project and it was a Disaster!!! So much so I sent it to Dave Person. He wrote an entire article on ALR about what a wreck it was and all its deficiencies.

It was the only left hand flint for my project, so they had me in a box. Thanks Dave, your the BEST.

This is the very last thing I needed to read today.

Just ordered an L-R Queen Anne from TOTW for my 20ga resurrection build. Do you and your friend think it's all Q-A locks or just the left handed versions?

What problems were you having? So I know what to look out for.

Thanks.

 

[user 53860]

I own some Pedersoli products. When I bought them I knew some people who thought the sun rose and set on Pedersoli..., but in my case some were very good, and one was quite bad.... poorly fitted parts, and bad frizzen.

I still own a CVA caplock. Not authentic, and the least expensive rifle I could get in 1982 that was legal for muzzleloader deer in Maryland. I still own that one, and it was made in Spain and looks a lot like a caplock rifle currently offered by Traditions. I just bought a vintage CVA SxS caplock kit in 12 gauge with a second set of SxS .50 barrels. Looking forward to finishing that, yet I know folks who won't touch a CVA.

I own a Dixie Gun Works Tennessee rifle, but it has an aftermarket lock fitted.

I was asked by my coworker who sits in the cubicle next to me about a flintlock, and suggested the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. It arrived with a cracked stock BUT was quickly replaced. He smacked his first black powder deer with it in PA a few weeks later. That was his word..., "smacked"... seems he thought I was exaggerating when I said a well hit deer when using a patched round ball will drop and stay put.

I own several Thomspon Center rifles, and they all shoot well, caplock and flintlock.

I bought a Traditions long rifle, and promptly retro-fitted the lock with an aftermarket lock. The **** on the factory lock was bent in shipping, and the vendor said it was a Traditions problem and Traditions said it was a vendor problem.... haven't owned one since.

My favorite rifle is a semi-custom Cabin Creek rifle. That's a made rifle, not really a brand name.

I have a Pedersoli Bess. The lock is terrific, faster than any of the three custom flint rifles I own. So far no problems at all with it.

My all time favorite inexpensive rifle is any of the three US made CVA Mt. Rifles I have owned. The first, a .50 cal kit I built in the late 70's has processed over 100 pounds of Goex over the years and would be first choice for any deer hunt. The .45 caliber I gave to my elder son as his first muzzleloader. The third is an unfired .50 factory built MR I found at a gun show. Been saving it to use when I shot out the barrel on my kit gun. Not going to happen in my life time. I've heard of problems with the Spanish locks on later models, but it's always posts made on some forum. I don't recall ever meeting anyone at a shoot or rendezvous who actually had a problem with them.

I have a CVA/Traditions Hawken kit with 2 barrels I have never got around to building. The hardware quality does not equal the old MR kits and I really hate those modern sights. I have two Lyman GPR in .54 I am less than impressed with. One came with a crown that only covered half the muzzle, the other side being untouched. Neither is as accurate or precise as the 40+ YO MR after multiple bench sessions. Love my ROA though.

Santa brought my grandson a traditions half stock kit last year. Parts were missing right out of the clam shell packaging they use and the lock was a mess. Traditions sent the thimbles that were missing but told us they would not replace the lock. Even when we told them it is bent and tumbler won't tighten there fore lots of play. They said it was normal. I never did like traditions probably never will.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

By any means, NOT all production guns are bad. Ive seen tons of them shoot well.

Its the pig in the polk, that would stop me from every buying another.

 

[Coinneach]

Anyone can build a rifle. I did. My stock looks a lot better than the metal, because I was a wood worker for many years. The rest I had a long time builder mentor me.
Do you think that in the 1700s they made guns in factories? Nope. Even at harper's Ferry, of the 20 smiths and helpers, not any 5 gun parts worked together, when they first started.
No one then or now should go out and try and make one unless you have the skill set.
Seek out others who have, and learn.

Two things I wanted to do before I die. Build a rifle for my grandson. Done.
That took 5 months of 4 hours a week at a master builder's shop.
He told me he hated working with black walnut, but my stock looked like furniture to him.
He had a $600 black walnut rifle he built, and hated. My bud bought it, gave me the wood, and now it looks like mine, furniture grade.

Is my rifle a custom build, yes. Is it worth $1000s, no its not that perfect. But it is mine.

Build my own car out of other cars parts. Done.
Bought a 1930 Model A and a 1954 Merc Monterey and made one car out of the parts.
Been working on cars since I was 9. I still had help welding the frame, and doing body work.
Yet my body man said he had never seen a filled roof that did not pop going down the road.
I encapsulated all the wood in resin, just like I used to on boat hulls. The wood did not give, the metal roof did not pop.
His metal working and my wood working made a well made roof of a car that never had one.

Anything is possible, if yo set your mind to it.

"Anything is possible, if your set your mind to it."
Right on

 

[TDM]

So what brand muzzloader or cap and ball would you not recommend and why? Was it crappy workmanship, customer service or other?

Myself I was not happy with Traditions customer service.

The answer to your questions is dependent on how much money you’re willing to spend. But for a low budget I’d say Investarms, mid budget a Kibler, and high budget would be a custom build. Which, as has been said, is not always without issues. For cap&ball, they can can all have issues out of the box. No golden keys on this.

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

By any means, NOT all production guns are bad. Ive seen tons of them shoot well.

Its the pig in the polk, that would stop me from every buying another.

Me either.
Guess I must be in the lucky camp. I have 2 Traditions, 2 Pedersolis, 2 Lymans & all of them work great.
I did have to replace the lock ( wore it out ) on one of the Pedersolis, but, I consider that part of the business since I put 8000-9000 shots on it within 3-4 years.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

I've noticed that members here generally do not like Traditions products. I own 4 Traditions rifles and a Traditions Trapper pistol and in general I like them. These are all flintlocks. However, I do think Traditions frizzens are a crap shoot. Some of them don't spark well at all right from day one. I'd guess those are ones that weren't properly hardened.

Ive had a number of Traditions BP rifles over the years. One of them was a flinter. Didnt spark worth a tinkers damn when I got it, I was the second owner. I hardened the frizzen and it worked just ok. I make knives as a side hustle and I can tell you that I think the carbon content of the frizzen was a little low. Instead of rectifying the issue I sold it with full disclosure. I got a .50 Pedersoli Kentucky and am a happy shooter now. Trads are fun shooters, but where flinters are concerned, you get what you pay for. Hope it all works out for you.