What is it?

[French Colonial]

Is it a Breech loader or a Muzzleloader?

 

[Phil Coffins]

A muzzle loading breech.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Its a game violation ticket waiting to happen here during ML'er season. No sure how a judge would see it.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Its a game violation ticket waiting to happen here during ML'er season. No sure how a judge would see it.

Same here. I find it highly irksome that my state keeps amending/bending rules for modern ML that are bordering on not being a ML but won't budge one iota on something like that.

 

[bpd303]

Is it a Breech loader or a Muzzleloader?

It's just one step among many in the evolution of the rifle.

 

[Dale Lilly]

I think it is hilarious! Just determine, in your mind, the steps necessary to load, shoot and reload, I'll stick to a normal sidelock muzzleloader. Good grief, what a monstrosity, Nice collector item, however.

 

[bpd303]

Just think though if one had a half dozen of those breech inserts, loaded and primed with the frizzen down on the priming powder how fast follow up shots could be made.

 

[Flintandsteel]

I suspect it’s a military design.
Think about it, a whole box full of the “cartridges “, you could lay down some pretty good volleys down range

 

[2 shots]

could keep it in your pocket in fowl weather

 

[Dale Lilly]

Just think though if one had a half dozen of those breech inserts, loaded and primed with the frizzen down on the priming powder how fast follow up shots could be made.

Uh huh, and where would you carry six of those monstrosities [breech inserts] to enable you to readily take one out of the gun, put it away, get one from your large bag, insert it, check priming, cock the hammer, etc. I like my Santa Fe Hawken.

EDIT: BTW, one would need two separate large bag compartments, otherwise you might well get a fired one in your haste. You would still need horn/flask. measure and some sort of small ramrod, I think there is good reason why few were made, Just my 1/2 cents worth.

 

[akroguy]

I'll take "what is a Ferguson rifle 2.0" for $200, Alex.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Muzzle loader, the gun does not contain a breech therefor the breech is loaded from the muzzle end. Just like a revolver.

 

[deerstalkert]

Just think though if one had a half dozen of those breech inserts, loaded and primed with the frizzen down on the priming powder how fast follow up shots could be made.

i for one would need a slav.. ah servant to carry them for me. can think of a couple gals that would be acceptable.

 

[Commodore Swab]

i for one would need a slav.. ah servant to carry them for me. can think of a couple gals that would be acceptable.

 

[Dale Lilly]

Too cute to shoot.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

... if one had a half dozen of those breech inserts, loaded and primed with the frizzen down on the priming powder how fast follow up shots could be made.

No problemo, those designed for replaceable 'breech" gonnes date to the 14th/15th century. See those 'mugs'? They are a self-contained and replaeable breech consisting of the powder charge and projectile.

Muzzle loader, the gun does not contain a breech therefor the breech is loaded from the muzzle end. Just like a revolver.

I disagree, what's shown above in post #1 is not a muzzleloader, that is a breech-loader, the designs of which pre-date flintlocks by a few 100 years, going back as far as breech-loading matchlocks and wheellocks. All which proves the point that nothing is really new ... like where Sam Colt should never be credited with making the 1st revolver ... maybe the 1st commercially successful revolver of self-actuating revolution in commercial scale - then maybe.

Although historically, the John M. Hall rifle of patent date 1811, another true breech-loader, was designed to be loaded from the muzzle once the breech action was all gunked up and locked closed by fouling (where the 1st few inches of the bore - from the muzzle - was counter-bored to allow a roundball to be loaded into the muzzle, then rammed into place).

 

[springfield art]

Is it a Breech loader or a Muzzleloader?

View attachment 305589

Yes! It's a breech-loading muzzle loader!

 

[Commodore Swab]

No problemo, those designed for replaceable 'breech" gonnes date to the 14th/15th century. See those 'mugs'? They are a self-contained and replaeable breech consisting of the powder charge and projectile.

View attachment 307319


I disagree, what's shown above in post #1 is not a muzzleloader, that is a breech-loader, the designs of which pre-date flintlocks by a few 100 years, going back as far as breech-loading matchlocks and wheellocks. All which proves the point that nothing is really new ... like where Sam Colt should never be credited with making the 1st revolver ... maybe the 1st commercially successful revolver of self-actuating revolution in commercial scale - then maybe.

Although historically, the John M. Hall rifle of patent date 1811, another true breech-loader, was designed to be loaded from the muzzle once the breech action was all gunked up and locked closed by fouling (where the 1st few inches of the bore - from the muzzle - was counter-bored to allow a roundball to be loaded into the muzzle, then rammed into place).

Is the breech loaded from the muzzle end? In the cannon you show the breech block is inserted making it a complete gun. The breech block is loaded from the muzzle end.

A Ferguson is a good example as a breech loader the ball is inserted into the breech then the powder. This is like a modern cartridge gun as the cartridge does not contain the weapons breech (different than the cannon you illustrate). On the Ferguson it can also be loaded as a muzzleloader in which case the powder is inserted first down the barrel with ball following like a revolver.

Would you classify a puckle as a breech or muzzleloader? It operates by each chamber containing the breech and is loaded like a revolver (by revolver I am referring to cap and ball) yet has seperatly loaded breeches like your cannon.