What is needed in your bag?

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Shot pouch contents…..
Including PC/HC kitchen sink…..

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Sorry BN, I couldn’t resist…🥴😎

One never knows what’s in another’s shot pouch…

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It doubles as a pouch for my “signaling device….

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😎

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👍
 
The OP's original question was, "What should I carry in my bag to keep my rifle running when in Indian country?"

We had a thread recently about what we carry hunting that includes ALL of the extra plunder and items that keep us safe and help us on our trek.
Here's the link to that discussion - Hunting equipment carried
 
I realize @Pee Wee 's post was tongue in cheek, but it does beg the question: Are you interested in replicating what a southern frontiersman would have carried in his pouch 200 years ago, or are you asking what is recommended for a modern-day blackpowder shooter to carry, to maintain his rifle? Also, since the OP has a southern mountain rifle (SMR), does he want accouterments specific to the culture that produced that particular type of rifle, or would generic gear be adequate?

If you really want to know about what was used by authentic southern frontiersmen, you need this book:

View attachment 173628

This was recently reprinted by the Contemporary Longrifle Association (CLA), and is a compilation of some earlier works by the author, Jim Webb. It is available through the CLA store for fifty bucks, which is not unreasonable in today's world: Sketches of Hunting Pouches Book

Realistically, people used to keep things pretty simple. Here is a pertinent quote about the Texas frontier, from Pioneer Days in the Southwest, by Goodnight, Dubbs, Hart, et al.:

View attachment 173631

On the frontier, the "hunting pouch" was usually called a shot pouch or bullet pouch. Sometimes just a "pouch," if the context was clear, and I did see "hunting pouch" used one or two times in the period literature. In fairness, I did see "shot bag" one time. Some authors did mention the contents. Bullets were usually left loose in the pouch...they would gravitate to the bottom, where they were easily found. Out west, a lot of smaller items were fastened to the strap, outside of the actual pouch. This is Ruxton's description of Old Bill Williams in Life in the Far West:

“In the shoulder-belt which sustained his powder-horn and bullet-pouch were fastened the various instruments of one pursuing his mode of life. An awl, with deer-horn handle and the point defended by a case of cherry-wood carved by his own hand, hung at the back of the belt side by side with a worm for cleaning the rifle; and under this was a squat and quaint-looking bullet-mould, the handles guarded by strips of buckskin to save his fingers from burning when running balls, having for its companion a little bottle made from the point of an antelope’s horn, scraped transparent, which contained the “medicine” used in baiting the traps.” (Description of Old Bill Williams – page 144)

Jim Webb devoted an entire chapter in his book to showing the contents of actual antique southern hunting pouches he had examined. Here are a few sample pages:

View attachment 173635

View attachment 173636View attachment 173637

The images pretty consistently show a powder charger (sometimes two, with slightly different capacities), a worm or wiper, and a mould. I don't think they really did much casting at trailside, but a little "bag mould" would not take up much space, and if left in the pouch, would always be available when needed. Rifles were not always of standard calibers, and getting a new mould to cast balls for your rifle could be a problem. Mr. Webb devoted some space to knives, which he believes were normally carried on the belt. A lot of the pouches he illustrates have a wire vent or nipple pick suspended from the strap. Pouches for percussion guns usually had a tin of caps, or sometimes a little cap-horn. Mechanical cappers were evidently not used in the southern mountains. One other item which seemed pretty common, oddly enough, was a simple powder funnel. The quote from Texas (above) mentioned patch material, and spare flints for flintlock shooters. Mr. Webb also illustrated a hank of flax tow, which would have likely been carried in the pouch.

The pouches he illustrated were almost all very simple, with one compartment. I think he only showed one that had an inside pocket.

So, getting back to the original point, do you want to carry just authentic, documented kit when you are out for a day with your southern mountain rifle, or are you comfortable carrying some modern conveniences? It's up to the individual. Just for the record, I tend to carry too much.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
We have to keep in mind what they were doing in the tall timber. Hunt, trap,scout,travel. What they were not doing was shooting, at least as we do at a range or woods walk.
They might get in a fight with hostiles but this was rare. The frontier was not the jungles of Vietnam during the war.
One dead Indian was a national tragedy to that nation. Indians were brave and expected a warriors death…. But not today. Even when times of war was going on encounters with hostiles were as likely to end in a smoke and trade as it was to be a fight. They would only risk their lives when there was a high probability of their own survival.
And they were all armed with muzzle loaders. They didn’t carry military cartridges. Even if to reload you poured from your horn and sent a bare ball home a second shot would be twenty to thirty seconds away. After one shot it was tomahawk and knife.
There were of course some fire fights recorded, especially out west, but these were exceptionally rare.
In the Cain-tuck or upstate New York,over the Mountian or woods of The Floridas most frontier folk killed were within feet of their cabins at night or of early morn
 
The OP's original question was, "What should I carry in my bag to keep my rifle running when in Indian country?"

We had a thread recently about what we carry hunting that includes ALL of the extra plunder and items that keep us safe and help us on our trek.
Here's the link to that discussion - Hunting equipment carried
We need keep in mind that long-hunter, Mountain man, settler, trader ect would have a horse,mule, wagon some sort of boat to carry plunder in.
Treking, our modern backpacking with funny clothes and historic equipment is not a reflection of what old timers were doing in the woods of the past
Real life frontiersman would get a chuckle out of our sport.
 
We have to keep in mind what they were doing in the tall timber. Hunt, trap,scout,travel. What they were not doing was shooting, at least as we do at a range or woods walk.
They might get in a fight with hostiles but this was rare. The frontier was not the jungles of Vietnam during the war.
One dead Indian was a national tragedy to that nation. Indians were brave and expected a warriors death…. But not today. Even when times of war was going on encounters with hostiles were as likely to end in a smoke and trade as it was to be a fight. They would only risk their lives when there was a high probability of their own survival.
And they were all armed with muzzle loaders. They didn’t carry military cartridges. Even if to reload you poured from your horn and sent a bare ball home a second shot would be twenty to thirty seconds away. After one shot it was tomahawk and knife.
There were of course some fire fights recorded, especially out west, but these were exceptionally rare.
In the Cain-tuck or upstate New York,over the Mountian or woods of The Floridas most frontier folk killed were within feet of their cabins at night or of early morn
"They would only risk their lives when there was a high probability of their own survival." Very true! You are being too kind to our Indians IMHO. Indians rarely if ever got in a fight where the odds were not overwhelmingly in their favor. Just like "charlie". That is why the "ambush" was always the preferred method of attack. There was "nothing" honorable about Indians. That myth has been proven false a million times. :horseback:
 
We need keep in mind that long-hunter, Mountain man, settler, trader ect would have a horse,mule, wagon some sort of boat to carry plunder in.
Treking, our modern backpacking with funny clothes and historic equipment is not a reflection of what old timers were doing in the woods of the past
Real life frontiersman would get a chuckle out of our sport.
I agree. Back in the day if you lived in "Indian country", the mere process of going hunting for food was fraught with danger. You never knew if the Indians were going to let you pass or not. IMHO
 
I would say that when it came to encounters with Indians, the gray matter between one's ears was more important than anything carried in the pouch. Here is a tale of a Missouri frontiersman named Jim Davis, from a back issue of the Missouri Historical Review:

MHS - Jim Davis & Bear.png


The book referenced in post #26, Sketches of Hunting Pouches..., reprinted two stories of Indian skirmishes which occurred in Tazewell County, Virginia, in the 1780's. Cool heads saved lives. In one of those stories, a man was shot in the arm with an arrow, which cut a small artery. Blood spurted into the pan of his rifle and spoiled his priming before he could get off his shot, but he managed to bluff the native warriors with the nonfunctioning rifle while his companions continued the fight, and they all lived to tell about it.

A lot of those folks were made of the right stuff.

Notchy Bob
 
Was there some rule that said all that other stuff some folks carry in their shot pouch, couldn't be carried on the woodswalk in another bag,,, a "possibles bag?"
Yes I believe the sign posted specified "shooting" bag. But this all took place in late 80s. Again, I'm sure the club putting on the shoot read the same article and did it for fun, as they were know for things like that on their woods walk shoot. DY
 
Lots of good advice here. I might disagree about fire starting stuff. A magnesium metal match doesn't take up much space and it could save your life if the Bic in your pocket runs out. Some might prefer flint and steel. Fire is essential for survival.

Another suggestion I have is a Victorinox Swiss Army Knife with as many blades as you can afford. You really might want a marlin spike for dealing with tight knots in any cordage you are using. A "hobo tool" is nice to have if you plan to eat something out of a can. Trail mix is probably a better option. You might want yet another knife to supplement the other ones... small Barlow maybe? You really cannot have too many knives. I lost a nice Cold Steel SRK when I was soldiering in Kuwait during the first Gulf War. For the rest of my time there I made do with a SAK.

Maybe you want a small pistol/revolver. Maybe not.

You do want some water, but probably not in the possibles bag.

Really no such thing as being "over-prepared". It's always a balancing act between size/weight and how important you think the item in question is. I would not carry, for example, bullet molds and lead. Do your bullet casting before you leave your base. If you got a team of mule/horse/Shetland pony and a buckboard, take everything you could possible need, but remember to have stuff for your livestock.

Don't forget medical supplies like insulin, bandages, etc. If you are treking in Wisconsin/Michingan/Minnesota bring something like "Off". Mosquitoes will carry you off the trail and leave you a dried husk by morning. ;)
 
Lots of good advice here. I might disagree about fire starting stuff. A magnesium metal match doesn't take up much space and it could save your life if the Bic in your pocket runs out. Some might prefer flint and steel. Fire is essential for survival.

Another suggestion I have is a Victorinox Swiss Army Knife with as many blades as you can afford. You really might want a marlin spike for dealing with tight knots in any cordage you are using. A "hobo tool" is nice to have if you plan to eat something out of a can. Trail mix is probably a better option. You might want yet another knife to supplement the other ones... small Barlow maybe? You really cannot have too many knives. I lost a nice Cold Steel SRK when I was soldiering in Kuwait during the first Gulf War. For the rest of my time there I made do with a SAK.

Maybe you want a small pistol/revolver. Maybe not.

You do want some water, but probably not in the possibles bag.

Really no such thing as being "over-prepared". It's always a balancing act between size/weight and how important you think the item in question is. I would not carry, for example, bullet molds and lead. Do your bullet casting before you leave your base. If you got a team of mule/horse/Shetland pony and a buckboard, take everything you could possible need, but remember to have stuff for your livestock.

Don't forget medical supplies like insulin, bandages, etc. If you are treking in Wisconsin/Michingan/Minnesota bring something like "Off". Mosquitoes will carry you off the trail and leave you a dried husk by morning. ;)
All good advice. I like the idea of a Swiss Army knife and a small pistol. Neither one may not be historically correct but they are handy things to have. Comforting to know they are there too.
 
What one needs to carry also will vary depending on location and distance from things. What I might need in the mountains of Colorado is different than on the Great Plains.
 
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