What is the cleanest burning black powder?

[Bunk]

I have shot many brands of real black powder. It is my personal opinion ( and worth what you paid for it) that the cleanest burning with out question is Swiss, followed by KiK (no longer made), Goex Old Enford, regular Goex (soon to be made again), Schultzun also sold under Gaff's house brand, And the really bad old elephant powder made in Brazil. Now being sold under a different name .I would not worry about any true black except for the elephant which you probably can't get anyhow.

It makes no difference about the brand of black Gunpowder or substitute you shoot in the firearm it must be cleaned with a solvent that dissolves the salts in the fouling that cause corrosion.
Historically water, warm if possible, was used.
Now there are many concoctions that may be used, but water followed by a quality gun oil does the most reliable cleaning and preserving.
That is what I have been using since the days of Laflin & Rand Orange Extra Sporting Powder, Du Pont Gunpowder, and corrosive percussion caps.
That is how I cleaned yesterday after shooting an unmentionable to relax after making paper.36 Navy cartridges.
Respectfully Submitted
Bunk

 

[Bunk]

I have never heard that smokeless powder is corrosive unless used in the older surplus ammo using corrosive berdan primers.

Prior to mid 60's I believe US militarily used corrosive primers.
Until the early 50's percussion caps were corrosive and it was a great day when Winchester came out with "Staynless" non corrosive caps. One size fits all but made cleaning that much easier.
Hold center
Bunk

 

[longcruise]

Yep, i know all that stuff. Fact is, that of all the black powder substitutes, only the residue of Pyrodex is seriously corrosive.

"Fact is"??? The facts are in the manufacturers MSD sheets that you referenced. It's all potentially corrosive. BP and subs but not all for the same factors. The subs have led many shooters to neglecting the importance and urgency of cleaning their guns . Seen it done and heard the belief stated.

Ironically, the subs leave a fouling that is corrosive until it is Treated (cleaned with) water. BP becomes corrosive when the fouling absorbs moisture out of the air. In extreme low humidity conditions BP fouling won't absorb enough moisture to cause corrosion for a considerable time. Subs not so much.

 

[user 43911]

I think the OP was asking cleanliness not level of corrosiveness.
Also I was not sure but maybe somebody will answer, the question was asked in reference to cartridge loading, is this permitted here (cartridge loads that is), I already posted my 2 cents some time ago on clean powder.

 

[Frontier's]

American Pioneer/ Alliant Black MZ. All 5 of my bottles had to be dumped out and broken apart with a spoon. Still shot well, but at 10 bucks a pound, it was awesome to plink with

 

[roundballman]

I have used T7 in 12 ga loads for an old double barrel that was my grandfather's.
1 1/8 oz of shot
70 yrs T7
Win AA shell
Win AA12 wad
Win 209 primer
1187 fps 7700 cup
This is not a damascus barrel but an old gun from about 1900.
Good load for doves, etc.

 

[Vtmountaindeerhunter]

Does it have to be actual black powder? You might want to experiment with Hogdon's Tripple 7. It is much cleaner than any black powder. I have used it in pistol cartridges... mostly .44 Special. Only drawback I found was that I needed to wash the brass in water for reloading... something you gotta do with any black powder cartridge... which are unmentionable on this forum, BTW.

Obviously, if you are gonna be shooting a Damascus barrel, you need to get it inspected, and you might want to use a reduced charge weight with the T7 loads if you go that way. As some Damascus guns have been shot with smokeless powders, I would guess T7 will work if the barrel is in good shape. You probably want to use their 2F granulation.

It has no sulfur in it, so no rotten egg smell and no corrosive residue.... but you still gotta clean the gun after shooting it... with hot soapy water. I use Murphy's Oil Soap... and remember to put some kind of oil in the bore when you are done. Use a well-oiled wool mop. Something that will penetrate any rough spots in the bore preferably as all Damascus guns I have seen in the past forty years or so have been pretty scary-lookling.

Another poster here with more experience shooting Damascus guns might give you some advice regarding barrel lube(s). I just don't shoot 'em. Never did. A Damascus gun that is intact has a certain value as a wall-hanger, blown up they are scrap metal.

Dunno your experience level loading BP shotshells, but be careful. BAD THINGS can happen at the loading bench.

If you try T7, please PM me with your results. I am curious.

I did 37 grn In .45 colt brass of 777 fff it was smoking hot, don't try this . I am actually nervous i have more loaded not labeled. That was before I read not to use the fff in reloading, it says so on the can. I use the Lee hand loader wen watching TV. I use the 777 FF in scholfield brass now with 27 grn . Shooting well all day with lead flat nose 235 grn

 

[Stantheman86]

I have 3 cans of Goex Clear Shot FFg. How does this compare load wise to black powder FFg? It says it is a black powder substitute and I have used it in my inline but I have recently obtained a TC Hawken 50 cal percussion. I am guessing it is safe to use in the Hawken.

I always heard Goex Clear Shot was really good shooting, accurate powder. Competition shooters liked it, it's a little less powerful than the other subs.

I had heard Goex had someone make it for them under the Goex name but the factory blew up or something, and Clear Shot is no longer made.

 

[Stantheman86]

I did 37 grn In .45 colt brass of 777 fff it was smoking hot, don't try this . I am actually nervous i have more loaded not labeled. That was before I read not to use the fff in reloading, it says so on the can. I use the Lee hand loader wen watching TV. I use the 777 FF in scholfield brass now with 27 grn . Shooting well all day with lead flat nose 235 grn

I have fired 40 grain charges of 777 3f in percussion revolvers with no problems. Apparently Hogden warns against severe overcompression , I assume with cartridge loading but since the load for .45 LC was 40gr of black powder I'm sure your 777 loads are fine.

 

[deermanok]

All black powders are dirty. My experience is that Swiss is the more cleaner burning, followed by Old Ensyford, which isn't available anymore. Hope Goex brings it back someday.

 

[SPQR70AD]

Yep, i know all that stuff. Fact is, that of all the black powder substitutes, only the residue of Pyrodex is seriously corrosive.

you keep saying that but I used pyro for 40 years is pistols and rifles cleaned afterwards very easy cleaning and never saw any corrosion

 

[Okie Hog]

you keep saying that but I used pyro for 40 years is pistols and rifles cleaned afterwards very easy cleaning and never saw any corrosion

Yep, properly clean the muzzleloader and there's no corrosion problem with any powder. In 2000 i bought a cheap old Stag Horn rifle that has fired close to 4,000 rounds using Pyrodex. The bore is shiny with no pits.

 

[BP Addict]

The OP's question has been pretty much answered.

My concern would be pressure. BP is safe to shoot in Damascus barrels. Pydrodex has lower pressure.

My experimentation with 777 was in a 54 caliber Hawken Percussion rifle. 70 grains of 3F not only put a dent in the metal plate but hit so hard it broke the chain it was hanging on. It wasn't until quite a few years later I read where you're supposed to lower the charge by 15%. Needless to say, the folks putting on the Match weren't too happy!

Walt

 

[Frontier's]

The OP's question has been pretty much answered.

My concern would be pressure. BP is safe to shoot in Damascus barrels. Pydrodex has lower pressure.

My experimentation with 777 was in a 54 caliber Hawken Percussion rifle. 70 grains of 3F not only put a dent in the metal plate but hit so hard it broke the chain it was hanging on. It wasn't until quite a few years later I read where you're supposed to lower the charge by 15%. Needless to say, the folks putting on the Match weren't too happy!

Walt

Same for Swiss.

 

[BP Addict]

Same for Swiss.

I have not used Swiss, yet. Are you saying that it also needs to be reduced?

I did notice that Old Eynsford shot a bit high compared with the same loads of regular Goex.

Thanks!

Walt

 

[Frontier's]

I have not used Swiss, yet. Are you saying that it also needs to be reduced?

I did notice that Old Eynsford shot a bit high compared with the same loads of regular Goex.

Thanks!

Walt

Exactly what im saying.

Old eynsford is another performance black powder.

 

[64Springer]

you keep saying that but I used pyro for 40 years is pistols and rifles cleaned afterwards very easy cleaning and never saw any corrosion

Same here.

The only way to have rusty holes eating away at your gun is to not clean your gun.

I've got pieces that were fed a steady diet of Pyro and the bores still look like a mirror.

All the crap about BP substitute having corrosive properties were cooked up by real BP manufacturers.

And like a bass going after a worm, the ML community took the bait.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

When Pyrodex first came out, the "word" on the street was that it was less corrosive and that you didn't have to clean your rifle immediately after shooting. That was a load of crapola. If anything, Pyrodex is MORE corrosive than actual black powder, not less. That said, whatever you use in your charcoal burner, the secret to avoid corrosion is to clean it as soon as possible, coat the bore with something oily and put a little oiled patch over the nipple or in the flash pan of a flintlock. Then put it somewhere that you would be comfortable and wipe it down once in a while.

Neglect is the real culprit.

 

[Vtmountaindeerhunter]

Back around to pyrodex just makes you feel less cool . Like riding a moped or a fat woman, it's fun until your friends find out.

 

[longcruise]

If anything, Pyrodex is MORE corrosive than actual black powder, not less. That said, whatever you use in your charcoal burner, the secret to avoid corrosion is to clean it as soon as possible,

And that right there is the crux of it. Shooters who used it didn't bother to clean. Many Still doing it that way.