What is the moisture in the pan?

[Sparkitoff]

I am loading with Goex FFFg, a PRB using the "dry patch". They are 7:1 water/ballistoil but feel totally dry. I swab with a very lightly moistened spit patch between shots. Every few shots and as often as every other shot there is moisture in the pan that I have to wipe out with a dry patch. Where is the moisture coming from?

 

[simonbeans]

The humidity in the air. Powder residue is hygroscopic.

 

[dledinger]

Yep. In the heat of the summer mine is like black soup after one shot.

 

[jrmflintlock]

I never had it happen in New Mexico but when I lived in Oregon I used to get it too. My shirt was always black from using it to wipe between shots.

:grin:

 

[don hepler]

During these high humidity conditions, I keep a rag in my pocket. I wipe the flint and the pan, to keep things as dry as possible.

It's been humid, here in Va.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

What is the moisture in the pan?

It is the enemy.

It must be wiped out.

HA, get it, wiped out!!

:rotf:

I'll be here all week, folks. :hatsoff:

 

[Tom Compton]

Imo it has nothing to do w BP residue being hydroscopic.

I believe seating the ball pushes a lot of air through the touch hole (a Venturi) causing the temperature of the air to drop as it crosses the pan and cools the pan. The humidity condensed on the cooled surface mixes with the BP residue.

Next time conditions are making pan soup, look at the pan after firing then again right before loading. Hmmm no black mud? Now load and look.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Metal doesn't experience "wind chill".

It's the hydroscopic properties of the fouling salts.

 

[simonbeans]

I am not a chemist, but a little research provided this information:
Combustion converts less than half the mass of black powder to gas, most of it turns into particulate matter. Some of it is ejected, wasting propelling power, fouling the air, and generally being a nuisance (giving off a soldier position, generating fog that hinders vision, etc.). Some of it ends up as a thick layer of soot inside the barrel, where it also is a nuisance for subsequent shots, and a cause of jamming an automatic weapon. Moreover, this residue is hygroscopic, and with the addition of moisture absorbed from the air forms a corrosive substance. The soot contains potassium oxide or sodium oxide that turns into potassium hydroxide, or sodium hydroxide, which corrodes wrought iron or steel gun barrels.[citation needed] Black powder arms must therefore be well cleaned after use, both inside and out, to remove the residue.

 

[Bo T]

I didn't find any reference to potassium or sodium oxides. I did find potassium sulfate, potassium carbonate, and potassium sulfide. Which are all basic salts, but will not result in the same amount of hydroxide wt/wt formation as the potassium oxide.

 

[rafterob]

Forget all these scientific answers. It is black powder juice. And for some reason when its more humid out it gets juicier. On a rainy day you will have to wipe that pan every shot.

 

[Rifleman1776]

All are correct. It is bp mud. Live with it. I use my swab patch after swabbing the barrel to 'sorta' keep the pan clean between shots.

 

[R.C.BINGAMAN]

Angel pee, some days the angels pee in your pan and all hope is lost.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

40 Flint has an interesting thought. Just like the condensation you get from a jet of air coming from an air compressor. However it could be a combination of all three factors. Hygroscopic fouling salts, high humidity, and the compressed air effect.

When the salts are exposed to the jet of saturated air coming out of the touch-hole it condenses the moisture.

I would imagine that these salts could do this without the compressed air if the humidity was high enough, but it would take time. So to test it you'd have to let the fouling sit for a minute or so without exposing it to the compressed air. If it remains dry, but gets wet only after loading; I'd say 40 Flint is spot on!

 

[plmeek]

Interesting that no one has mentioned the fact that the combustion process generates water as a byproduct. When a carbon-hydrodgen compound like charcoal burns, it combines with oxygen to form CO2 and H2O.

If the atmosphere is already saturated with H2O, such as on a humid day, the water vapor being ejected through the vent will condense on the metal surfaces it comes in contact with since it can't be absorbed in the saturated air.

This process occurs must faster than the hygroscopic absorption of the salt compounds in the black powder fouling.

 

[Carl Fowler III]

I'm shocked...none of you experts have this figured out! We've all seen the results of an accurate load in barrels. ..Dragons Blood! So the way I see it as the powder ignites and just before it injures the Dragon...He pee's a little tinkle that naturally runs out the touch hole and into the pan! If you doubt the validity...Next time you see this in your pan...take a sniff of it!

 

[Rifleman1776]

Next time you see this in your pan...take a sniff of it!

Mostest beautifulest smell in the world. :grin:

 

[BigBoreBLR]

Not only your pans get soupy, the pan cover section of the frizzen and your flint get it. I wipe the flint face, then the pan roof section on the frizzen, then the pan itself.

 

[hanshi]

It is a scientific fact that BP fouling is hygroscopic and draws moisture out of the atmosphere. I've primed guns a couple of times while forgetting to actually load them; result, a flash in the pan. And it still starts a wet, gummy mess; there's yer proof.

Some folks will come up with the most technical and complicated explanations for fouling drawing moisture and completely ignore the plain, simple explanation which is the correct one. This means that if it's humid when you shoot, clean that gun before you go to bed. If you live in Arizona you can leave it until another day, unless it's raining.

 

[M. De Land]

I think you have the right answer. When it's dry and hot the moisture from combustion is almost instantly evaporated from the flash hole ejection and when humid it can't dissipate so instead condenses and is absorbed by the fouling turning into the mud.