What is/ was this?

[ravenousfishing]

I am posting this in the percussion forum because that is what it is now. I have always assumed this started life as a flintlock but that is just a guess. My Dad was given this in the 60's or 70's . Don't figure it has any real value, just curious as to what it may have been. I dont have any calipers but the smooth bore is difinitly larger than a 58 mini ball. The barrel isn't perfectly round but has a series of flat edges. The trigger guard is not original.Hope I am doing this right since I haven't posted photos before. Sorry about the poor images.

 

[wulf]

Looks like a Spanish Miquelet with the trigger
guard on backwards...i didn't say what it was
only what it looks like..

 

[paulvallandigham]

Sure that isn't Pappy Yokum's scattergun? :hmm: :rotf: :hatsoff:

Seriously, it looks like a stage prop gun, and I agree with Wulf: The trigger guard does look like it was put on backwards. That would be about par for the folks who build stage props.

( For those of you too young to remember, Pappy Yokum was the father of Lil' Abner, and comic book character that appeared in Newspapers for almost 50 years, and won its creator, Al Capp, many awards. It was the front page comic for the Sunday newspaper's comics insert for many years all over the country. The strip was so popular, that movies were made, and TV shows like the "Beverly Hillbillies", and even the "Dukes of Hazard" were loosely based on the characters that Al Capp created.)

 

[ravenousfishing]

The guard does seem to be mounted backwards from how it should be, but it definitly is a replacement since it doesn't line up with any of the inleting. The proof marks on the barrel do appear to be Spanish, but that is just my unedumicated guess.

 

[silverfox]

I agree with both the above on maybe a stage gun. I have no idea what kind of gun it is but the trigger guard looks to be from a Frobert type gun made in belguim and France. It is definitely on backwards. These were single shot breechloaders mostly small caliber with a lot of .32 rimfires and 9mm shot along with some .22's. They were imported here in large numbers as they were cheap weapons. Most were about bb gun size.
What you have is a put together gun.
Fox :hatsoff:

 

[White Cloud]

I agree that it isn't the original trigger guard but looks like one of those Folberts that were made back in the mid-1900's.As to the the gun being a flintlock at one time,doesn't look it to me looks like it was born percussion"Blunderbuss"
Just my opinion...White Cloud

 

[nw_hunter]

It could have been Pappy's gun or .......Senator Phogboundot-bellied Jack S. Phogbound was satirist Al Capp's skewed archetype of a filibustering southern politician. Senator Phogbound was a corrupt, conspiratorial blowhard, who often wore a coonskin cap and carried a ramrod rifle to show his constituents he remained a trustworthy good ol' boy. Ah! the good old days! :grin:

 

[windwalker_au]

its not a stage prop gun it has proof markings on the barrel in front of the breach,i think it could be made in india.
Bernie :hmm:

 

[paulvallandigham]

The presence of " Proof " marks means nothing. Stage props often use " stuff " bought in flea markets, or even overseas. And they have been known to reproduce those Proof marks. We have at least one very competent gun builder here, who has his own set of stamps to reprise the proof marks on replica guns he build, for instance. Its not done to commit fraud, but to replicate authenticity to the most minute detail.

Have someone knowledgeable about European made guns take a look at it, and be prepared with the necessary screwdrivers to remove the lock, and barrel from the stock, so he can look it all over. The lock was definitely made to be a percussion action, and that means that the flared muzzle is for a much earlier time period. This is the kind of thing that movie, and Stage prop houses do when they need a gun to fire a blank charge, but either don't know how to use a flintlock, or the Director is afraid that someone will be injuried and the gun won't fire if they use an actual flintlock action on the stage gun.

I have seen similar monstrosities used in opera performances. I can hardly contain my laughter, because I am the only one in the audience who understands how absurd the " Gun " is. Having experience doing off-stage sound and prop work for plays when I was younger( My brother and I were the only kids with any knowledge of guns, and other things, needed to make the right noise for school plays), The lack of knowledge, and the unwillingness by teachers, directors, producers, and actors to learn anything about guns is quite remarkable. I do find, in spite of all this, that many musicians are avid shooters, and they don't make that information known very often. I would learn about their " secret life " when they found out I am a gun person, and they would pull me aside, and quietly ask me where I shoot, and where they can get this or that.

Just don't expect to find any shooters in the Corps du ballet!

 

[John Taylor]

I agree with the others on the trigger gaurd, looks Flobert. There were 3 different types of Flobert. The first one was scary with the hammer acting as the breach block. The second was sort of a rolling block and the third had a breach block the pivoted on 2 screws that went in the side of the barrel. None were very strong. I have 2 in the shop at this time, one in 22 and the other in 32. The 22 has been shot with modern ammo and is no longer safe for anything. The 32 is mostly a parts gun and is about 50% larger than the 22. Can't help on the rest of your question but I'm thinking Spain.

 

[ravenousfishing]

This gun always intrigued me as a kid because it looked really cool on the wall. Later on I was curious because of the strange looking percussion lock. I have long assumed that this gun had been cut down long ago for God knows what reason. Could have had a burst or bent barrel. Maybe it was done for the same reason people cut down shotgun barrels on modern guns. Heck, maybe it was done for show. Since I started this thread, I have looked it over more thoroughly and even removed the lock. The lock still functions crisply as does both the full and half cock positions. I would say that this lock has been with this stock since the beginning. The inleting appears to be original as do the lock bolts and the two inlet sideplate washers on the opposite side of the stock. The triggerguard is definitly a replacement, and as noted, is mounted backwards from how it should be. The inleting for the original trigger guard bears this out. There was originally a butt plate that was inlet to cover half the butt and up over the heel for 2" or so. Also, the ram rod channel is bored all the way through the stock to the butt. The barrel appears to fit in the channel properly but it is currently held in place with only a replacement tang screw. While I may never know how this gun started out it's life, it still looks cool on the wall and is an attention getter.