What LEMAN do I have ?

[45flint]

I got an old rifle at a yard sale- about 7/8 octagon 36 15/16 inch barrel , the bore is not round but is seven sided about 5/16 across the flats.
the lock is marked LEMAN LNCTR PA and on some of the internal parts is stamped either 06 or 0G, also has dbl set triggers, does anyone have any information about this gun. it is in useless to poor shape, don't know if it'll ever shoot again

 

[Bountyhunter]

How about some pictures? Cant tell much without being able to see it.

 

[wolfers]

There is a chance that you do not have a Leman. Leman's company made locks that were sold to many different gun builders.

 

[45flint]

will send pic's soon, were seven sided bores common, I;ve never seen one b4

 

[swquiro]

I have no idea what you have there, but here is something for you to consider. Several years back I found a piece of a muzzleloader in the attic of the old home place in West Virginia. The barrel was missing, as was the forend from about 6 inches up from the lock, which was of the back action type, and rusted to the point fo being worthless. The butt, however, bore the diffuse and tell-tale carving of a known gunsmith from the mid-eighteenth century who lived and plied his trade in Winchester, Va. His rifles, when they rarely turn up, fetch big bucks. Two local builders were quite eager to take it off my hands. I sold it for a handsome sum to one who said he would turn it over to Keith Casteel, who likes such projects and turns out superb end products.
So, you may just have a wall-hanger, but then again you may have much more.

 

[45flint]

first time working with pic's

 

[Rebel]

Not sure what you have but it looks like an octagon barrel to me, not 7 sided.

 

[45flint]

it's seven, if you click on the pic it will come up in a larger window and you can see betterOOPS-I'm talking about the hole in the barrel

 

[paulvallandigham]

Seven lands and grooves were common for rifled barrels. The barrel seems twisted i the barrel channel, as it is not sitting flat on the bottom flat against that forend cap. Has the breechplug been removed and the bore inspected? If the bore is okay, it can be shot again. If its in bad shape, there is enough metal there to bore it out and re-rifle it to a larger caliber. Any idea what caliber it is now? That back action suggests the gun was stocked post civil war. The barrel could be older.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Dono, but somehow I have the feeling that it may have been built in the later half of the twentieth century using an assortment of old parts. In the 1950's there were no replica muzzleloaders on the market and a really nice Kentucky rifle was already too expensive for the average working guy who just wanted to shoot. But a rusty, broken old clunker could be picked up for near nothing, often exactly nothing. So we'd salvage the usable parts, get a barrel re-bored and put it all together on a home-built stock in whatever style suited our needs, imagination and ability. Give such a rebuild another half century of use and most folks would believe it came from Daniel Boone's personal gun rack. :grin: I really doubt it was built by Leman but it would require a hands on examination by someone in-the-know to really give you any useful info.

 

I got the same feeling--maybe a modern rebuild using old parts.

 

I'm going to have to agree, it's a put together. The back action lock isn't typical for early Lemans but mostly because it is installed in the manner of a side lock rather than the way a back action lock is normally installed. It looks like it was installed by someone who had never seen a properly made rifle with a back action lock: there should not be any panneling around the lock, particularly this clumsy half way done attempt, and there should be more drop to the wrist for a proper installation.

The rifleing is common to early 19th century guns while the lock is probably 1850 to 1880. The odd number of grooves was done so that the back of the rifling cutter would be riding against the cylindrical part of the bore rather than a groove. The groove was deepened by inserting a shim behind the cutter on successive cutting passes. I have seen both five and seven grooved barrels, they are sometimes mistaken for Whitworth rifleing, which is hexagonal.

 

I'm in the restock group also, not that it is a bad thing. The lock is a Leman of about 1860-80 vintage. Long tang suggests it might be southern. As Paul said the barrel could be rebored. Stocks kinda clunky for my taste. Could be a 1950's/60's restock. Looks to b missing a few screws, and bolts. Bill

 

[45flint]

I just had the barrel loosly sitting in the stock for the pic's, am soaking in liquid wrench now b4 trying to pull breach plug, there are no markings at all on it, a 5/16" rod just fits the bore, so i'm thinking it's close to 32 cal BUT thanks for all your comments it sure helps**also what is the difference between a "back action" and what we see today-showes I don't know much yet.

 

[Old40Rod]

It does look like a restock, for all the reasons stated above... also the hardware fits like my first Sunday Go to Meeting suit (including the buttplate).

 

The back action lock is what you see on your rifle. The main spring is to the rear of the tumbler and acts upon the rear of the tumbler. The lock plate can be made narrower in the rear. The hammer is near the front edge of the lock plate. Back action locks were often used in some very, very nice rifles.

The more common of the two sidelocks has the main spring mounted below the the tumbler and the tip of the spring acts on the front of it. The hammer is located on the rear 1/3 of the lock plate. Once you see both side by side the difference is readily apparant.

It has been said that back action locks are faster but I don't know if that's actually true. I have both locks and can tell no discernible difference.

Hopefully others will offer a better description than mine.

Vic

 

[45flint]

Thanks for the info, I kinda opened my eyes and actually looked at a newer lock duh funny how you can look at something and not really see it-thanks again