What load should I start with?

[The New Guy]

First of all, Thanks to everyone who has replied to all of my previous post and questions. I have finally joined a local range and will finally get the opportunity to shoot my sons CVA Mountain Stalker .50 cal for the first time this week. While I admittedly know very little about muzzle loaders, I now feel very well versed about most issues after reading through all the post over the last few months. My last question before going to the range to see just how this thing shoots is what load should I start with and possibly work up to? I have purchased, and will be using, Hornaday .480 RB with purchased round patches. I am not sure what size the patches are since I have already placed them in a homemade tin and have thrown away the original package. The charge I have purchased is Hodgdon Triple Seven FFG. When buying everything to shoot this I also picked up a tube of T/C Bore Butter as lube. After reading about all the lubes on this site, should I scrap the Bore Butter and use one of the homemade lubes listed here instead? I don't know if it matters, but I live in very South GA and high humidity and high temps are always the norm. Thanks for any and all help/advise.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I'd recommend you start with the starting load in the owners manual for your rifle. I think you will have better luck with .490 balls. But since you have the .480 balls may as well try them and see what happens. I'd think you will need a patch that is in the range of 20 thousands. Nothing wrong with bore butter and it is a good place to start.

Make sure you do a real good job of cleaning out the bore and nipple area of all the factory oil and grease. You will have misfires if you don't.

I have had very good luck with Triple Seven. While I often use Triple Seven with regular CCI #11 caps, I go with the mag caps for hunting.

 

[rafterob]

General rule of thumb is to start with 1 grain per caliber,i.e..50 cal=50 grains.

 

[ebiggs1]

I never shot a Mountain Stalker but I am going to guess a starting load in the 50-55 grs would be good but check your manual first. All my 50 cal's seem to think somewhere in the 70-80 grs is best. But you need to try it first.
In the powder category GOEX is best, followed by Pyrodex. All the rest is well below these. Mostly because of price or no real improved performance over Pyrodex and certainly not over real black GOEX. But you need to try it first.
No matter what concoctions some guys come up with there again there is no significant improvement over off the shelf easy to get and use Bore Butter. Or just regular plain olive oil, its just that Bore butter smells better! I agree in extreme ends of tempature Bore Butter may not be the best choice but even then simple steps can be taken to help this. But you need to try it first.

I am also going to suggest 490 RB's would have been a better choice. But you need to try it first.

Remember this,

you need to try it first.

:hmm: Go shoot! :thumbsup:

 

[The New Guy]

well wish me luck. I'm off to the range and I guess I'll start with 50 grains. When I went to purchase everything needed to shoot this gun, and having absolutely no clue, (this was before i found this site) I told the only local gun store I needed everything and bought what they sold. The .480 RBs where the only option for a .50 cal. Now that I know a little more, I'll have them order .490s for me. Thanks for everything. I'll let you know how it went.

 

[gearheart]

If the 480's are too loose a quick fix would be to double up the patch. Lots of variables to play with. That is what the fun is about. It is like having your own ballistics lab.

 

[Sinner]

Yes, please give us updates! It's fun to experiment, and you'll find that some things others tell you will not work may actually work out fine for you.
I thing you'll be happiest with fffg black powder, over any of the substitutes.

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

Mine shoots very well with a .490 ball, .020 patch and 85g of Goex. It also shoots a 370g Maxiball well using an over powder wad and the same 85g of Goex.

The only time I ever had ignition problems is with 777.

Enjoy,

Bob

 

[The New Guy]

Had a great time at the range yesterday. Unfortunately, I didn't get to spend as much time there as I would have liked to though. I'll be posting some pics on a new thread of my first time out. This gun was shooting very consistently high and left using 60 grains of triple 7 ffg and a PRB. I had planned on starting with 50gr but the measure I bought starts at 60. I wish I had seen the post telling me to double up on the patches since I'm using .480 shot. With one patch i could start the ball with my thumb so the fit was not as tight as it should have been. Live and learn...

 

[Pacobillie]

Had a great time at the range yesterday. Unfortunately, I didn't get to spend as much time there as I would have liked to though. I'll be posting some pics on a new thread of my first time out. This gun was shooting very consistently high and left using 60 grains of triple 7 ffg and a PRB. I had planned on starting with 50gr but the measure I bought starts at 60. I wish I had seen the post telling me to double up on the patches since I'm using .480 shot. With one patch i could start the ball with my thumb so the fit was not as tight as it should have been. Live and learn...

I do not know what distance you were shooting at or what the conditions were, but that is a very good result, for a first try with a new rifle/load/etc...

 

[The New Guy]

I was only 25 yards out. I'll get back out there in the next day or so and try doubling up on the patches to see if that helps until I can get some 490s.

 

[Ron_T.]

I suggest you read my previous reply in your original post. It gives "THE" most accurate loads in my two CVA .50 caliber percussion cap Hawkens.

I'd suggest you start checking target loads at 40 grains of Swiss FFFg (or about 10% more powder if you're using Goex) and work up in 5 grain increments to at least 60-70 grains.

I shoot ONLY real black powder, so I can't help you out on any conversions from the artificial black powder you're currently using.

I'd also suggest you find and use .490" swagged Hornady rifle balls as they are very accurate in my two CVA Hswken rifles.

Shoot all your accuracy loads at 25 yards until you find "THE" most accurate loads. THEN move your target out to 50 yards secure in the knowledge that the load you're shooting IS the MOST ACCURATE LOAD in YOUR individual rifle.

Incidentally, I store my black powder rifles MUZZLE DOWN to help drain away any excessive oil in the flash channel/powder chamber which tends to make it easier to "clear" the flash channel/powder chamber with a single percussion cap when I'm ready to shoot at the range.

Make good smoke... :thumbsup:


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

 

[The New Guy]

If the 480's are too loose a quick fix would be to double up the patch. Lots of variables to play with. That is what the fun is about. It is like having your own ballistics lab.

I tried the 2 patch tip with my .480s and they were a bear to get started down the barrel. However, the accuracy of the first three shots were greatly improved and much closer to center from 25 yards from bench. Once I get some .490s I'll really start having fun.

 

[50cal.cliff]

I can't say for sure cause every rifle is different but it sounds like your .480 ball is undersized.

I shoot a .490 ball and Wallyworld pillow ticking which is in the neighbor hood of .18 for thickness!.

I can also shoot a .495 ball with that same patch, even though it is hard to load (not impossible) but hard.

The .495 combo will produce a lot more kick. As far as accuracy they are about the same!

 

[Gatofeo]

I have a CVA Mountain Rifle in .50 cal I bought new about 1980. Still in fine shape.
For plinking at 50 yards or less, I use 50 grs. of Goex FFG black powder, .490 Speer ball, well-washed 100% cotton patch made from old Dockers, Jeans or T-shirts and a Remington No. 11 cap.
Very accurate and almost no recoil. A very good load to introduce newcomers to the sport.
A fun load that doesn't burn up a lot of precious black powder.
For 100 yards, I up it to 75 grains.
For hunting deer, I increase it even more to 85 or 90 grains, which is maximum.
Other than the charge, my components never change.
My early CVA Mountain Rifle, made in U.S.A. and not Spain, has rifling of 1 turn in 66 inches. I have only shot a few conicals through it; it's more accurate with round balls.
I hunted elk and deer in northern Idaho with a plain, lead ball years ago. Never bagged either, but I feel confident that it would have done the job because the range was so short -- heavy brush in ravines and deep timber. I could easily have slipped that ball exactly where it was needed for a certain kill.
This isn't fantasy. I knew a number of Idahoans who took elk with .50 and .54 cal round balls. This was in the late 1980s to mid 1990s, before the inline and sabot abomination hit.
These folks were hunters and stalkers.

A lubricated, felt wad loaded between patched ball and powder can sometimes improve accuracy and reduce fouling. The old-timers used a bit of bee's nest for this purpose. Try that too, but make sure the nest is abandoned!

I use the 19th-century recipe I improved, and later named after me, for my patch and wad lubricant: Gatofeo No. 1 Bullet Lubricant.
It's made of mutton tallow, canning paraffin and beeswax. The recipe's all over the net, just search for Gatofeo and bullet lubricant.

Dixie Gun Works also sells "Ol' Zip Patch Grease," a very old recipe of mutton tallow and beeswax. It's excellent too.
If nothing else, even Crisco, lard or olive oil will work for patch lubricant but I prefer Gatofeo No. 1 or Ol' Zip Patch Grease.

Enjoy that rifle. Sounds like a good one.