What makes a Southern rifle?

[Coinneach]

They could have hollowed the stocks to have a hidden flask.

God we can only hope, imagine the sippin quality of a well aged 200 year old Rum stashed in a SMR butt stock.

 

[tenngun]

Those are not Southronor’s rifles in my book.

In modern parlance, Southern rifle just means a simple often plain iron mounted style gun popular in my South. That’s what it means to people these days, not the 18 different “schools” or whatever pedantic minutia you are so proud of knowing.

No need to get your blood pressure raised.

It’s not that there were not poor boy guns, in that basic southren style, but some were very fine. The Soddy Daisy comes to mind. Iron mounted but nothing simplistic. It all complex curves. Beans rifles also southren and plain and sturdy, but again not poor boys, often complex silver inlays in the iron mountings.

 

[andy52]

Here's my SMR, very plain with iron furniture, and walnut stock, the only fancy thing on this rifle is the pewter nose cap.
It is the most accurate rifle I own, it's light and nimble. I've had this rifle for close to 30 years and when I use it I swear it's alive and puts a ball just exactly where it needs to be..

 

[SOLANCO]

When I was looking for a flint rifle to build I first thought the late Lancaster's were what I wanted but the more I looked at the the design and architecture of the butt stock and forearm I just couldn't pull the trigger on the purchase. The examples I looked over also were far to Gawdy for my taste. I looked at the Bucks county guns and poor Boys but I just couldn't find what I really wanted until I came across several SMR designs with the iron furniture, Butt stock and forearm shape I wanted. They were slim, trim and the beauty was in the wood , architecture and fitting of components.
I think the iron trigger guard shape on SMR's is probably they're biggest signature trait.
I knew this design was what I wanted right away and have been very happy with my TOTW kit build.
I stained my Tiger striped Maple with Winchester "French Red" from Brownell's and it brought out the modest striping as well as it could be which is also quite pleasing in a subtle way . Never did care for the Aqua- Fortuce dark look.
I do like a bit of relief carving accented with modest amounts of silver wire but this rifle was left plain. I absolutely do not care for all the charms , escutchens and other assorted decorative inlays. Here are a few shots of mine in .45 cal with a 36 inch GM barrel.
Click on picture to enlarge.

The elegance of simplicity.

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Here is my Southern...purchased new many decades ago...can't get much further southern than this one! Unfired, 50 cal., set trigger, bbl. 39", and note it is "warranted"; basic yet elegant!!!

 

[david w]

Here is my Southern...purchased new many decades ago...can't get much further southern than this one! Unfired, 50 cal., set trigger, bbl. 39", and note it is "warranted"; simple yet elegant!!!
View attachment 134604View attachment 134605View attachment 134606

That's a pretty piece of wood. The cross fire in the cheek piece area really sets it off.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

Here is my Southern...purchased new many decades ago...can't get much further southern than this one! Unfired, 50 cal., set trigger, bbl. 39", and note it is "warranted"; simple yet elegant!!!
View attachment 134604View attachment 134605View attachment 134606

Here is my Southern...purchased new many decades ago...can't get much further southern than this one! Unfired, 50 cal., set trigger, bbl. 39", and note it is "warranted"; simple yet elegant!!!
View attachment 134604View attachment 134605View attachment 134606

Unfired?????

 

[Rod Man]

Here is my Southern...purchased new many decades ago...can't get much further southern than this one! Unfired, 50 cal., set trigger, bbl. 39", and note it is "warranted"; simple yet elegant!!!
View attachment 134604View attachment 134605View attachment 134606

Nice!!!

To me, that looks more like a Bethlehem/Verner style with a touch more drop.

https://muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/riflesets/bethlehemverner.html
The reason I say that is I have a "Poor Boy .40" on the way that has a very similar stock/trigger guard profile. Not to say that some ole boy wasn't trained in "Bucks County" and started his on business in Appalachia. I went with brass on the new build as well. Brass was more readily available in 1815-1820 most likely repurposed and recast from broken parts etc.. Like I said, the one I have coming is a "Poor Boy". My folks did not have a lot money, so I imagine when things were tight, patch boxes and adornments were not considered and I went with the barrel in the "white" will let it develop is own patina. The idea being they could only afford the very basics. I can only hope that it turns out that nice.

I have a "Southern" that I picked up from TVM in .50

With what seems to be the general consensus, iron furniture and no patch box.

RM

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Unfired?????

Yes...unfired. I do have another very similar Hatfield (looks like a twin) that I purchased from "two roosters" on this site.....that is my go to shooter...great 50 cal rifle, very accurate off hand on a 9" gong at 100 yards with 70 grains of 3F! Hatfields of this time of manufacture seem to be very sound, balanced, very accurate, beautiful well-put-together rifles.

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Yes...unfired....or maybe at the factory proofing??? All I have done is checked the flint and it creates a great shower of sparks!

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Here is my Southern...purchased new many decades ago...can't get much further southern than this one! Unfired, 50 cal., set trigger, bbl. 39", and note it is "warranted"; simple yet elegant!!!
View attachment 134604View attachment 134605View attachment 134606

Is that an Italian stallion or an American eagle?

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Is that an Italian stallion or an American eagle?

I'm going from aged memory and may need correcting, but Hatfield was an American company for years and towards the end of its existence or the existence of its successor, they imported top quality Pedersoli barrels to spec....the rest was from the Hatfield company including stocks; however some parts may be from local vendors...just cannot remember. The top quality of this rifle and lock and its shower of sparks is the best of my several other flinters, all from very well known USA builders of the best available at the time and since.... and I have some magnificent hand carved Pennsylvanian and Virginia flinters. I really appreciate it because of its basic, beautiful clean lines and whenever I show it off with the others, it draws all the attention....Therefore, it could be called an American stallion??? Hope others with more info will chime in.

 

[hanshi]

SMRs (aka Appalachian rifles) were, aren't the only style of rifle built in the South. I've seen many original rifles built in Georgia that were nothing like the iron mounted, utilitarian rifles from the mountains. And the names are not specific but rather relate to a generalized architecture. In general they tend to be iron mounted, have crescent butt plates, slender architecture with calibers normally .45 (+ or - ) and often smaller. Some Southern rifles don't have the crescent butt plate and are of larger caliber, but most seem to be crescent. The designations we apply to rifle styles are modern as the original ones weren't in rigid categories. I have two; a .32 and a.36. Both are flyweights.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I'm going from aged memory and may need correcting, but Hatfield was an American company for years and towards the end of its existence or the existence of its successor, they imported top quality Pedersoli barrels to spec....the rest was from the Hatfield company including stocks; however some parts may be from local vendors...just cannot remember. The top quality of this rifle and lock and its shower of sparks is the best of my several other flinters, all from very well known USA builders of the best available at the time and since.... and I have some magnificent hand carved Pennsylvanian and Virginia flinters. I really appreciate it because of its basic, beautiful clean lines and whenever I show it off with the others, it draws all the attention....Therefore, it could be called an American stallion??? Hope others with more info will chime in.

It’s really pretty

 

[Grenadier1758]

One of the common comments about the Southern Mountain Rifle is its simplicity and its plainness.

It’s not that there were not poor boy guns, in that basic southren style, but some were very fine. The Soddy Daisy comes to mind. Iron mounted but nothing simplistic. It all complex curves. Beans rifles also southren and plain and sturdy, but again not poor boys, often complex silver inlays in the iron mountings.

Here's my SMR, very plain with iron furniture, and walnut stock, the only fancy thing on this rifle is the pewter nose cap.
It is the most accurate rifle I own, it's light and nimble. I've had this rifle for close to 30 years and when I use it I swear it's alive and puts a ball just exactly where it needs to be..

One aspect of the build is the SMR architecture. To look at the rifle one sees simplicity. Don't let that fool you. Simplicity does not give one a rifle that is light and lively in one's hands. The curves that flow into those simple lines are really quite complex. The fine flows are pleasing to the eyes. The "simplicity" removes all that unnecessary wood to make the rifle part of your body. The SMR does not need complex carvings or extensive inlays. Some SMRs will have the bling, but still must conform to the stock architecture that makes such a rifle come alive. That level of simplicity is deceiving.

Simple is a barrel strapped to a 2x4 and fired with a fuse.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Some of the finest guns are the simple ones yet with good architecture and balance. A well built southronor’s mountain rifle or Schimmel style barn rifle can be a real hoot, not to mention a holler.

 

[M. De Land]

One of the common comments about the Southern Mountain Rifle is its simplicity and its plainness.


One aspect of the build is the SMR architecture. To look at the rifle one sees simplicity. Don't let that fool you. Simplicity does not give one a rifle that is light and lively in one's hands. The curves that flow into those simple lines are really quite complex. The fine flows are pleasing to the eyes. The "simplicity" removes all that unnecessary wood to make the rifle part of your body. The SMR does not need complex carvings or extensive inlays. Some SMRs will have the bling, but still must conform to the stock architecture that makes such a rifle come alive. That level of simplicity is deceiving.

Simple is a barrel strapped to a 2x4 and fired with a fuse.

I couldn't agree more. One of the things I did when I bought my kit was pay the extra $ 8,.00 for build instructions which educated me on fore wood shape , furniture positioning and how to make it flow together. It gave two examples of fore stock profile (cross section) "shape" and the all important sequence of assembly which has a great deal to do with error free, close fit construction and how well the project will turn out.
The instruction sheet was about 3ft by 5ft with all the instructions in order and picture examples of the complex parts of the assembly. I stapled it to a large piece of cardboard and hung it on the wall until the project was completed and believe it was the most important and best bargain of the whole kit.
For me the muzzle cap gave the greatest challenge to fit right with no gaps in metal or wood and level with the barrel flats. I had thought wedge to tenon/staple fit would be the real bugabo but this one was easy and trouble free. I'm told getting the loading rod tunnel right is a job but have not attempted that as of yet. This kit came with that done and a pretty close inlet of the straight octagon barrel.
I didn't want a patch box so that was convenient but some SMR don't use a muzzle cap and I did want this on my rifle.



muzzle cap which I did want.

 

[Dale Lilly]

When I was looking for a flint rifle to build I first thought the late Lancaster's were what I wanted but the more I looked at the the design and architecture of the butt stock and forearm I just couldn't pull the trigger on the purchase. The examples I looked over also were far to Gawdy for my taste. I looked at the Bucks county guns and poor Boys but I just couldn't find what I really wanted until I came across several SMR designs with the iron furniture, Butt stock and forearm shape I wanted. They were slim, trim and the beauty was in the wood , architecture and fitting of components.
I think the iron trigger guard shape on SMR's is probably they're biggest signature trait.
I knew this design was what I wanted right away and have been very happy with my TOTW kit build.
I stained my Tiger striped Maple with Winchester "French Red" from Brownell's and it brought out the modest striping as well as it could be which is also quite pleasing in a subtle way . Never did care for the Aqua- Fortuce dark look.
I do like a bit of relief carving accented with modest amounts of silver wire but this rifle was left plain. I absolutely do not care for all the charms , escutchens and other assorted decorative inlays. Here are a few shots of mine in .45 cal with a 36 inch GM barrel.
Click on picture to enlarge.

Gorgeous in its simplicity. Wow! Dale

 

[Cornbread]

Then, there are SMR that have half-stocks.
I’ve even seen some that are 3/4 (possibly full stocks which broke then reshaped?).

My g-uncle said the relative I had (Calvin Young who made them in Searcy County, Ark.) made everything but specialized in 1/2 stock rifles. He told me something very telling that I use today to explain to people at the range when I shoot mine and that is, “No two he ever recalled seeing ever looked the same.” (Pity that Arkansas accent of his can’t be attached to that quote.)

Others mileage may vary…
James

 

[david w]

(Pity that Arkansas accent of his can’t be attached to that quote.)

We Arkies don't have accents, everyone else does!