What Musket and what Powder

[dukewellington]

Hey,
Looking for some experts to help me out.
I'm new to Muzzleloading, and I have never owned or shot a Muzzleloader before. I'm now intrested in the sport, and after years shooting shotguns and Rifles, I want to get in to the sport, as it looks, well COOL!I want to buy either a Brown bess 75cal, or prussian musket 69cal.
My questions are-Can I use shot aswell as lead balls in a smoothbore ? and can I use pyrodex, or 777 in a flinter? Any toher flintlock information would be great.

Thanks Guys,

The duke. :wink:

 

[nw_hunter]

Yes to shooting shot and rb in a smoothbore, and the flinters need the real stuff(BP). I'm sure the flinter boys will give you the full info :wink: Welcome to the world of smoke! :thumbsup:

 

[dukewellington]

Thanks,
Can pyrodex be used at all? as BP is so hard to get hold off. Some people say pyrodex can be used, other say it can't.

Thanks Guys

 

[jtmattison]

Thanks,
Can pyrodex be used at all? as BP is so hard to get hold off. Some people say pyrodex can be used, other say it can't.

Thanks Guys

Pyrodex can be used in percussion but may have ignition problems in a flintlock.
Real black powder is actually pretty easy to purchase on line through various dealers and have it delivered to your door. Take a look at our Member Resources section. There are lists of places to buy everything you might need to enjoy muzzleloading.

Welcome aboard!

HD

 

[dukewellington]

I'm based in the Uk, and you need a permit to buy it. Can very fine Pyrodex be used in the pan?


I was born in the USA though :thumbsup:

 

[Trench]

The ignition temp of Pyrodex is some 300 degrees hotter than black powder. That is why it's unreliable in the flintlock. The brief flash in the pan may not always ignite your main charge.

 

[Zonie]

Can very fine Pyrodex be used in the pan?
---------
To test the answer to your question, I just used Pyrodex P (the finest granulation they make) in the pan of my Pedersoli Queen Anne pistol.

With a new flint I got 4 pans of the powder to light with the first fall of the cock.
The fifth pan didn't fire until the 3rd try but refreshing (re-knaping) the flint caused the next pan of powder to light on the first try.

How well the Pyrodex P in the pan will work to light off the main charge wasn't tested as they frown on hearing explosions here in the city of Phoenix.
My guess is because of the moderately vigorous flame that was produced it might work to light of a main charge.

I say 'might' because in the past when I have loaded Pyrodex as a main charge (by mistake) and primed with 4F black powder the main charge lights off about 3 times for every 6 attempts. That is with a pan powder that actually explodes in the pan rather than "quickly burns" like the Pyrodex did in the above Queen Anne experiment.

After all of this I guess I can say that if Pyrodex is all you can buy then, yes, it will work sometimes. Just be prepared for a lot of mis-fires.

 

[dukewellington]

I think misfires will make me end up flintching at the shot, as I won't know if it will go off or not.

How about 777? I hear it is easier to ignite than pyrodex. Otherwise it's a preccusion Gun, which I don't really wan't.

 

[Zonie]

Actually, at least for me not knowing if the gun is going to fire helped me reduce flinching.
After all, a person looks rather silly pulling the trigger and flinching only to find that the gun didn't fire.

By figuring that the gun wasn't going to fire I learned to "hold thru" every time I pulled the trigger. Then when the gun actually fired it came as a complete surprise and my group size came down a great deal.

As for 777, I don't own any of it so I can't test it. I have no idea how fast it burns outside of a gun barrel so I don't know if it will make the required "flash" or not.

I have heard several claims about it but these were about it being less corrosive than black powder and it having greater power per measured volumetric grain (which is true).
I haven't heard that it requires less heat than Pyrodex to ignite which is the basic requirement for successful use in a Flintlock.

 

[dukewellington]

I read it somewhere :hmm: Can BP be used in the pan, and pyrodex in chamber?
I might be able to, well make some. :thumbsup:

 

dukewellington,

Make what, B.P. If that is the drift, forget that very dangerous. If i'm misunderstanding sorry.

Jay

 

[Zonie]

Well, first off, we cannot discuss creating an explosive on the Forum.

As I mentioned, when mistakenly using Pyrodex in the chamber and real black powder in the pan I had about a 50 percent success rate.

Hodgdon, the maker of Pyrodex and 777 recommends that if either one is going to be used in a Flintlock the pan should be primed with real black powder and a small quantity of real black powder poured down the barrel (5-10 grains).
Then the actual main charge of Pyrodex or 777 should be reduced by the amount of real black powder that was poured down the bore to serve as a "starter" for the rest of the main charge.

Using this method can allow the more available synthetic black powders to be used to conserve the real black powder on hand.

 

[dukewellington]

I don't really want a caplock! I don't know what else to think though :hmm:

 

[Croppy Boy]

Try Peter Starley at www.black-powder.co.uk/ I found him very helpful. Failing that, you could try getting in touch with the MLAGB and see if they could be of some help.

 

[trent/OH]

With a handle of Duke of Wellington, a Brown Bess is what you really needs to shoot.

I'll be a nice guy here: Any time you get to the States, look me up, and I'll let you shoot my Bess as much as you'd like.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I think misfires will make me end up flintching at the shot, as I won't know if it will go off or not.

You've got that reversed. Flinching at a misfire is a sign you have a flinching problem. If you have a misfire and haven't flinched that's a good sign. If you do flinch at a misfire you're flinching every time - count on it.

The secret of shooting a flinter is to relax your neck and shoulders and give yourself up for dead.

 

[dukewellington]

I just need a powder that I can use in a flinter, that is not BP :hmm:

You need ap permit for BP in this dam country.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Your Lordship, (that was hard to say ) you will not find such a thing, substitute powders simply don't want to work, reliably or otherwise, in flintlock guns. Talk to the BP associations in Great Britain (try Croppy Boy's link?) and they will tell you the same thing.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Thanks,
Can pyrodex be used at all? as BP is so hard to get hold off. Some people say pyrodex can be used, other say it can't.

Thanks Guys

Pyrodex is GOOD stuff in my opinion, I use a musket cap and boom it goes.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Sorry. There are NO powders other than Black Powder that function properly in a flintlock. You have been already given a description of the problems using anything else either as a priming powder, or for the main charge. When a manufacturer tells you that you have to use a priming charge of black powder to get his Substitute powder to ignite properly, There is NO POINT to using the Substitute powder, NO? After all, if you can get the BLACK POWDER needed to Prime that main charge with the required 5 or 10 grains, why bother using the substitute powder at all? You will still need that permit to get the black powder.

We don't discuss Making Black Powder here for a couple of reasons:

1. It requires a license here in the States to make it, and is otherwise an illegal activity.
2. Its a very dangerous activity, that done incorrectly, can result in injury or death.
3. Claude says so.

That last one may not impress you, but I hope the first 2 do, particularly #2. The ingredients of black powder are well known, and even the mix. But putting them together safely is a big problem. The manufacturers also have a way to coat the granules with Graphite, to reduce the risk of friction or static electricity from igniting the powder. That is not easily done properly by the home chemist.

The key to understanding why all these substitute powders don't work right in flintlocks is the higher ignition temperature. In an open igntion system like that found in flintlocks, Matchlocks, and wheellocks, lighting Black powder, or any powder is like putting a match to a fuse.

Contrary, in a closed ignition system like Percussion, or Cartridge case, the fire from the exploding percussion cap or primer actually INJECTS the flame into the powder creating a much more rapid burning and faster rise in chamber pressure. That is why the substitute powders like 777, Pyrodex RS, and P , and others work fine in those guns, but not in flintlocks.

A powder other than black powder that can be used in a flintlock has not been made. Don't hold your breath on that either. The purpose of these substitute powders is to skirt current regulations restricting black powder, and not to really come up with a different powder that will work better in either percussion or flintlock guns. Its the same mindset that is making substitute kinds of shot because of current restrictions on using lead shot to kill migratory waterfowl. :hmm: :shocked2: :hatsoff: