What should frizzen face look like?

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I followed your suggestion. Although it may be a matter of degree. I just polished the toe with a whetstone and spent a little more time on the one side to give it a bevel (oh-so-slight).

 

[Zonie]

A lot of times when it looks like the frizzen didn't open after the flint hit it, it did open.

It also bounced back coming to rest on top of the flint or cock jaw.

About the only time I am sure the frizzen didn't open is when the flint is still resting against the face of the frizzen after the cock was dropped.

 

[Britsmoothy]

A lot of times when it looks like the frizzen didn't open after the flint hit it, it did open.

It also bounced back coming to rest on top of the flint or cock jaw.

About the only time I am sure the frizzen didn't open is when the flint is still resting against the face of the frizzen after the cock was dropped.

This is true, I came to the same conclusion. If the cock is at the end of its travel then the frizzen bounced back.
On mine this was due to the way the toe was shaped from factory, once I shaped mine how illustrated that stopped.
If your worried about shaping to far I understand. However, any one could build it up with tig set, just put the frizzen in a soda can of water to stop it getting hot.

I can only encourage you going by my lock and am in no way an expert, but any lock giving me poor flint life or reliable ignition it would now be the first place to look!

B.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I have experienced both as you described . The 7/8 inch flints remain on the face, so the frizzen is not opening all the way.

I found that to test if the frizzen is opening all the way and bouncing back, just hold a small piece of paper where the friizen SHOULD end up and dry fire the lock. You will see th paper twitch if the frizzen hits it, but the paper will not stop the frizzen.

 

[M. De Land]

I don't know for sure not being an expert at anything but it seems to me something is not right if the frizzen bounces back to contact the cock after fulling opening.
I'd be doing some spring modifications if mine were doing this.

 

[Britsmoothy]

My conclusion as to why my frizzen bounced back was due to it having to much resistance at the beginning of flint contact but little resistance at the end of the flints stroke. This meant an increase in frizzen speed. Causing bounce.
The way I shaped the toe reversed this slightly.
I am not getting the bounce as of now!

It will not damage or make it worse!

B.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Yeah, bounce-back is fairly easy to correct. Similar to Brit's drawing on page one, I just filed a flat spot on the frizzen toe right where the toe contacts the spring when fully open. To do this simply lay the frizzen toe and tail on the file and gently scrape it. The file may take some metal off the tail, but it is inconsequential.

But what Brit was recommending to me was to shape the tail such that upon first contact with the flint, the frizzen will begin moving with less resistance.

I'm a little less comfortable with this because I don't have the frizzen tail to index from. I just have to make a best guess as to where that flat spot should occur, and how much angle.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I deleted that other Flickr account and am using this one. Here are the pictures again

OK here's bevel down.

And Bevel UP

Frizzen groove.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Yeah, bounce-back is fairly easy to correct. Similar to Brit's drawing on page one, I just filed a flat spot on the frizzen toe right where the toe contacts the spring when fully open. To do this simply lay the frizzen toe and tail on the file and gently scrape it. The file may take some metal off the tail, but it is inconsequential.

But what Brit was recommending to me was to shape the tail such that upon first contact with the flint, the frizzen will begin moving with less resistance.

I'm a little less comfortable with this because I don't have the frizzen tail to index from. I just have to make a best guess as to where that flat spot should occur, and how much angle.

Yep, that is exactly what I did wrong too and is why I had to rebuild it up with weld and do it the opposite way !
The way you describedmeans the frizzen flies away just when the flint needs it to stay!

B.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

I have an L&R Queene Anne lock and lost the frizzen spring while cleaning the rifle at a reenactment. I don't normally remove it but I did that time and the tall grass ate it...

The rifle fired just fine without the spring but I did get the bounce back from time to time. The frizzen literally had no tension on it at all and yet it sparked great and fired just fine.

I called L&R and asked if they could supply a new frizzen spring for me and they offered to install it on the lock just for the price of the new part. I mentioned to the fellow on the phone that the gun fired just fine without it but the frizzen wouldn't stay shut while moving around. He said the only reason there is a frizzen spring is to prevent the frizzen from bouncing back and hitting the flint. As long as the lock geometry is good, there doesn't need to be any tension on the frizzen for it to spark well, but you can break your flints if there's not enough tension to keep it from bouncing all the way back.

I got the lock back about a week later with a thin frizzen spring installed and the hand written comment on the receipt, "nice lock!"

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[Britsmoothy]

I have an L&R Queene Anne lock and lost the frizzen spring while cleaning the rifle at a reenactment. I don't normally remove it but I did that time and the tall grass ate it...

The rifle fired just fine without the spring but I did get the bounce back from time to time. The frizzen literally had no tension on it at all and yet it sparked great and fired just fine.

I called L&R and asked if they could supply a new frizzen spring for me and they offered to install it on the lock just for the price of the new part. I mentioned to the fellow on the phone that the gun fired just fine without it but the frizzen wouldn't stay shut while moving around. He said the only reason there is a frizzen spring is to prevent the frizzen from bouncing back and hitting the flint. As long as the lock geometry is good, there doesn't need to be any tension on the frizzen for it to spark well, but you can break your flints if there's not enough tension to keep it from bouncing all the way back.

I got the lock back about a week later with a thin frizzen spring installed and the hand written comment on the receipt, "nice lock!"

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

Good story.
When my spring broke I was too able to discharge the gun before returning home!

B.

 

[M. De Land]

I did not know that, now I'm gonna have to take some springs off and see if both mine will still spark.
Makes sense though, once the flint starts biting into the frizzen face and shearing steel.
Thanks for the post, there ain't no end to the things I don't know yet it seems. :grin:

 

[Britsmoothy]

Is that not true for all of us!

B.

 

[azmntman]

If ya dont believe it just ask yer wife :blah:

 

[davescott]

no need to ask, she reminds me regularly :idunno:

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

OK. I learned that a gouge developing on the frizzen face is an indication of something wrong. The recommendation was to try smaller flints.

Here are pictures of my lock with the original 1-inch flints that Track of the Wolf recommends for this lock (the one that caused the gouge).

For comparison is my new 7/8 inch flint in both bevel up and bevel down positions. I took pictures of the half-cock position as well as the point where the flint contacts the frizzen.

Does any of these look right?

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

OK. I see the captions don't appear with the pictures (and they're smaller than expected).

The first two pictures are of the 1 inch flint which was causing the problem.

The last three are of the 7/8 inch flint.

 

[54ball]

I think your lock is fine, IMHO the only thing wrong with it is that it is new.

All new locks I have ever had take some breaking in to get right.

Gouges on the face, that's part of the break in process, the frizzen has to work harden somewhat.

A new frizzen is rough, it catches the flint, sometimes this causes a gouge.

To help this, polish the frizzen face with very fine emory. This smooths the new rough surface and also smooths the gouges cause by the flint digging in on on this surface.

This will also allow the frizzen to open as friction is reduced. It will still spark but the smoother face will allow it to open, rather than stall on the rough new surface.

Eventually it will smooth out, again that's all part of the break in process.

Trying to diagnose and fix problems you likely do not have can cause real and irreversible problems.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

well that's about as 180 degree answer as I can get from other folks on this forum. Too funny.

Others said that gouge is definitely not a good sign.