What size round ball for a 12 ga?

[diana]

I have a Navy Arms 12 ga. double made by Pietta. I want to shoot round balls in it. I am not sure what size to get. At the muzzle a dime will rattle around in the bore and a penny will almost but not quite fit. This is an early gun with browned barrels and a 3 diget serial number. I am assuming that both barrels are cylinder bore. So what size round ball and how much powder should I start with? All replies welcome.

 

[Snow on the Roof]

If you can measure the bores of each barrel, do so. Bore size can vary from one manufacturer to an other. That said, a .690 should work with patching. I have used .690 to .715 depending on the individual gun. As to powder charge, 70 grains of FF Goex is a good starting point. I once had a Curly built Northwest Trade Gun in 12 gauge. I shot a .690 round ball with an .020 ticking patch and 80 grains of FF in it with some accuracy, but she seemed to like a bare .715 round ball with the same 80 grain charge the best.

 

[wattlebuster]

I cant say for yours but in my colerain jug choked 12 ga barrel I shoot 690 self cast balls wrapped in a bear greased .018 pillow tick patch. I get good accuracy with 80 thru 100 gr of Fg powder. I have yet to see the 12 ga smoothbore that does not like Fg. If I were you I would start with some 690s and patch with whatever thickness patch that would load easy but not burn thru. Given time your gun will tell you what it likes :thumbsup:

 

[Alden]

You probably want to follow this recent thread...
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/295843/

...and could load it with a little bigger-than-.69 ball sometimes used in a Bess as your muzzle is > 0.705 and < 0.750. But 0.69 is probably just the thing, done right. A 12 Ga. bore is supposed to be 0.729ish. You'll want to at least military paper-patch/wad the roundball I think...

However, please do NOT load it with more than 70, MAYBE 75, grains of FFg-only (never FFFg in that).

 

[BrownBear]

I have the same shotgun as you, but have only done limited round ball shooting with it. I've also not bothered miking the bores to try to come up with a "better" combo than approximately what has already been described. I just worked with what I have on hand.

I have a supply of .690 balls, and some "fit tests" at the muzzle revealed that some .220 patching I had on hand was about right. Lubed with TOW mink oil tallow and launched over 80 grains of 2f Goex, both barrels print pretty close to the same point of impact at 25 yards. I'm lucky in that I guess, because different POI's for each barrel is more common.

I never pursued "more accurate" loads because I'm just not skilled at aiming without front and rear sights. Someone else could probably do wonders following a bore miking session, adjustment of components and load testing.

I got 3" or so groups from both barrels at 25 yards, but we won't talk about what was happening at 50 yards. In my hands mine is a fer sure 25 yard deer gun, but it would probably make a better club for 50 yard golf shots. :rotf:

 

[nwtradegun]

715 rd ball and 10 th. patch work in my 12 ga. musket

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have used .690 to .715 depending on the individual gun.

Exactly on point. I had a '12 ga.' shotgun that was actually a 14 ga. My Ped. Brown Bess is also supposed to be a 12 ga. but in actuality is an 11 ga.
As said, you need to measure and try. For wads, Flintlocks, Inc. has small trial packs so you don't end up with a lot of wads you can't use.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I use 3f in mine :thumbsup:

 

[Alden]

Different powders are more accessible here and safety comes first.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Yeah sure, and here :hatsoff:

 

[Eterry]

I'm trying to understand where you get the 70gr ffg max load? I understand if you're talking about bringing an original smoothbore out of retirement then lights loads would be warranted, but with a repro?

The Lyman BP handbook lists a STARTING load in the 12 ga at 75gr ffg, and even with 1 1/2 oz loads, (the heaviest listed), it lists a max of 102gr ffg.
The data for the Bess with a .715 545gr ball shows a max load of 150gr ffg! Man I bet that would rattle your fillings!

I also understand where different wadding can cause different pressure, but please enlighten me.
Eterry

 

[Rifleman1776]

The Lyman BP handbook lists a STARTING load

There are many misleading figures in the Lyman bp book. Read any (modern) reloading manual and it will emphasize the fact results are almost impossible to duplicate. The Lyman bp book is, at best, a guide, not gospel. Interesting and, at times, helpful but, IMHO, there is nothing definitive in it.
Some folks call a 70 gr. charge in a 20 or even 12 ga. smoothie as "light". I believe it is about all you would ever need for most uses.
Do wat works for you but use caution with the heavy charges.

 

[Britsmoothy]

On the side of my 12g repro it says max charge 89g and 1&1/4oz.

 

[Alden]

That's with the powder generally available in Europe I presume.

I would encourage Americans to be more conservative in loading their shotguns than like muskets or rifles.

 

[Eterry]

Do you have any data or information to support your insistence on light loads in Shotguns?
What are you basing your statements on?
Inquiring minds want to know
Eterry

 

[satx78247]

ImVho, you should get a micrometer that will accurately measure the bores and carefully measure the bores, as ML barrels are NOT always what they are marked.
(A friend in Austin has an Italian-made DB that is marked 12 gauge but measures as a true 13 gauge.- He uses 12 gauge over-powder wads, home-cut from cheap ceiling tiles.)

Once you know the bore-size, you'll have a good idea of what ball to buy to fit the tighter of the 2 barrels.
(I find that many tubes on doubles, including the cylinder-bored ones, are often somewhat different measurements.)

just my OPINION, satx

 

[Britsmoothy]

That's with the powder generally available in Europe I presume.

I would encourage Americans to be more conservative in loading their shotguns than like muskets or rifles.

Err no, the same gun is available to you and even with your super advanced NASA approved powder over our third world rated stuff!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Most of my information is purely anecdotal. The 18th (?) Century Poem written about shotgun shooting has the couplet:
" Less powder, more lead.
Shoots far, kills dead".

Also there are many threads on this forum dealing with the subject that confirm dense shot patterns using lighter powder loads with a coarse powder.

Shoots far is likely in the 20 to 30 yard range.

 

[Eterry]

Typically when I choose a load I don't rely on anecdotes.
Being that Alden hasn't answered back I did some research online, Goex lists 76-89 ffg for the 12ga, a site called ballistic products lists 100gr ffg, and some guy named W.W. Greener in a book called The Gun and it's Developments lists 89gr ffg in the 12ga.


I'm a fan of Robert W. Service as far as poetry goes.

I hope this load data helps.

Eterry

 

[Rifleman1776]

I'm a fan of Robert W. Service as far as poetry goes.

Me too. I have three books of his complete works.
Try loading antecdotes sometime, you might be surprised what happens. :wink: