What's the attraction

[hanshi]

Yes I have and still don't understand the motivation. They don't think like us that's for sure.

 

[trdigger]

It's just a much cooler way to enjoy the sport in my opinion. You set the flint, tighten it down just right. You knap it a little to get just the right spark, place the priming powder in the pan, tapping it to settle it in just so. Close the frizzen, cock and fire, creating the clack-whoosh-boom I love so much. It's all very tactile and personal, more so than just dropping a cap onto a nipple, then bang.Just my opinion.

 

[heraldj]

You guys have said it well. My first smoker was a caplock 32 cal. I was in heaven taking squirrels with that rifle. Then I got a 12 ga. flintlock, WOW now that was really the best! I have been hooked on flint ever since. I find flint much easier to use and (just my opinin) more reliable than my caplock. It also just feels good. Long live the spark!!

 

[Shlink]

All the above and more, seen many guys try to convert to flint from percussion, few keep with the flint it seems, it takes alot more patients and more attention to details, and for me it's about the journey.

 

[rancher]

Once you shoot one, you will be hooked. At least I was. I think they look better too and are just cooler in general. Nothing against the percussions, I have one of those too.

 

[David W.]

I might add that I've seldom seen a zip-gunner fire more than half a dozen shots and usually less. On the other hand around 30 to 45 rounds are pushed out of my barrels during a session.

I can see why they shoot so few shots. The price of those sabots, pellets (and they try to use three 50 gr at a time because they think they need the magnum load), it gets rather expensive.

At the same time, they THINK that their guns are superior to a flintlock because it is MODERN. Modern is always better, right?

 

[Larry Pletcher]

For me the most important reason is the history. My family ancestor grew up in Lancaster County within 10 miles of Isaac Haines. So, my favorite rifles are from that time and area.

As a retired teacher I really enjoy the science and mechanics of the flintlock. So, whether it's history, shooting, or the study of flintlocks, I'm pretty much hooked.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Lonegun1894]

It's just moch more satisfying to be able to make everything you need yourself, and have the outcome of a hunt depend entirely on all the little things you yourself did right to make it all happen. I'd much rather fail at a task and learn to do it right next time, than have to depend on someone, somewhere, who has no reason to care about my hunt, to do their job right so my hunt goes the way it should. So I guess it's a personal responsibility and the satisfaction that comes with getting it right thing for me, in addition to everything everyone has said above. There's just a level of satisfaction from making if all work just right.

Now if I could just get the hang of building guns like many here...

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I read this thread to learn something about flints. I've never shot one, but i'd like to. If i could have found one in left hand in my price range. I might have bought one. I like tradition and for that reason alone i'd probably like it. Even if I didn't really.

I'm surprised you guys are throwing a caplock Hawken under the bus though.

One thing I can agree with. If you walk out of the woods dragging a deer, and carrying a flintlock. I doubt a CF hunter will be any more impressed than if you had a caplock. They wouldn't know the difference. To them. They're all muzzleloaders. Only another muzzleloader would know.

I also expected more insight about shooting a flint than what I read here. How many of you said.." shoot one and you'll know."
Well, don't you know? Tell me what that means. Other than a flash in your face. How does it differ from a caplock? I've read that a good working flint actually fires faster than a caplock, because the hammer is shooting sparks before it's all the way down. Unlike the cap that needs to be all the way down before it throws a spark.
So, tell in words. How is it different? Why is it better? Caplocks can get hangfires and misfires too if you don't get it right. You can cast the balls for a cap too. You can cut the patch at the muzzle too. A caplock Hawken is as beautiful as a gun gets to me.

Help me understand. What is the mystery behind a flint that you guys can't explain?

 

[BrownBear]

Kinda like trying to describe good sex or the taste of water. You can't find the words for it that make much sense to anyone else, but you know when you've got it.

 

[David W.]

I read this thread to learn something about flints. I've never shot one, but i'd like to. If i could have found one in left hand in my price range. I might have bought one. I like tradition and for that reason alone i'd probably like it. Even if I didn't really.

I'm surprised you guys are throwing a caplock Hawken under the bus though.

One thing I can agree with. If you walk out of the woods dragging a deer, and carrying a flintlock. I doubt a CF hunter will be any more impressed than if you had a caplock. They wouldn't know the difference. To them. They're all muzzleloaders. Only another muzzleloader would know.

I also expected more insight about shooting a flint than what I read here. How many of you said.." shoot one and you'll know."
Well, don't you know? Tell me what that means. Other than a flash in your face. How does it differ from a caplock? I've read that a good working flint actually fires faster than a caplock, because the hammer is shooting sparks before it's all the way down. Unlike the cap that needs to be all the way down before it throws a spark.
So, tell in words. How is it different? Why is it better? Caplocks can get hangfires and misfires too if you don't get it right. You can cast the balls for a cap too. You can cut the patch at the muzzle too. A caplock Hawken is as beautiful as a gun gets to me.

Help me understand. What is the mystery behind a flint that you guys can't explain?

Capper, I don't know about others, but I have an original Hawkens (from a modern kit) which was made in St. Louis, Mo. I think they have moved to Washington State now. I have not read all the comments so I do not know what others have said. I have nothing against cappers at all, in fact, I own 4 cap locks, a Hawkens .50, Kodiak express .58 double rifle, a Bedford County .36, and an original 10ga. double with damascus steel barrels and wire inlay.

However, after I first started shooting a flintlock, I want to shoot nothing else. I may even make my Bedford into a flinter one of these days before I get too old, and that ain't far off!

The mystery behind the flint? It's too hard to explain, you just have to shoot one a few times to see for yourself. I guess it's kind of like that first girl you fell in love with, or something like that!:hmm:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

That was my wife, and it didn't work out. :rotf:

Hopefully i'd have better luck with a flint. :grin:

 

[David W.]

:surrender: :rotf:

 

[Zonie]

Capper:
I know this is not going to set well with some of our flintlock fans but just to let folks know, I shoot both.

First off, a flintlock is fussier than a caplock.
There are more things that can go wrong with getting it to fire.

If the flint is dull so it doesn't throw a good shower of sparks, if the pans prime covers the touch hole and causes the old FoooooooooooofBang), if the priming gets wet, if the wind is blowing hard which can cause the flash to blow away from the touch hole, plus more than one of other things that can go wrong the gun may mis-fire.

Learning how to prevent or cope with these things can be a challenge and once mastered the shooter can't help but feel very satisfied with themselves.
This, I believe is the main reason folks get hooked on shooting flintlocks. The satisfaction of pulling the trigger and having everything work like it should. There is also the satisfaction of knowing you have done what many modern gun shooters can't do.

There is also the touch of our history. Just knowing that your doing things the way it was done 170+ years ago and it is working just as well for you as it did for your great-great-great grandfather is a pleasure.

As for flintlocks firing as fast as percussion rifles, it 'taint true.
A percussion rifle will fire in something like 0.01 seconds after the sear is released.
A fast flintlock rifle takes about 0.08 seconds.
I must add here that the difference is less than the human mind can recognize. To us, it seems like they both take about the same amount of time.
Because a flintlock will sometimes take longer to fire it teaches the shooter the importance of holding thru the shot.
More than once I have had delays longer than a percussion gun shooting Pyrodex. Some of them being as long as a few tenths of a second, but because I have learned to expect these delays I've learned to "hold thru" the shot so I still fire very small groups.
This "hold thru" training will improve all of your shooting whether it is with a muzzleloader or a CF gun.

I hope my comments don't cause you to turn your back on flintlocks. They weren't meant to.
Think of shooting a flintlock as a totally new adventure. Something to add to your knowledge.
I should add that every shooter I know who has learned to shoot a flintlock enjoys them, not so much for their superiority to the more modern guns but because of mastering their weaknesses.

Let the pie throwing begin.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you haven't shot a flintlock, you simply can't understand the feelings from reading words alone. When I first started shooting my flintlock, I had a lot of help learning the "Tricks" from a very good friend, and tracking buddy. I actually taught him about Caplocks, and getting them to shoot right!

Yes, you can get malfunctions from both flint and cap guns. But, there are simply many more things that can go wrong with a flintlock.

I knew I had " Arrived", when another good friend, and club member, walked all the way down the covered firing line at my club to ask me when I switched back to shooting percussion guns ???

I pointed to my rifle, resting against the loading bench, and to the flintlock on it, and asked him what he was talking about? He was stunned, and insisted that I show him how I load my flintlock to get it to "fire so fast". I did, and had him stand to the rear-left of me so he could see the action work, and the gun fire, without risking being struck by flint chips, or fire from the priming powder. He claimed my gun fired before the hammer completed its fall. He watched my next shot, and said it happened again.

He walked away muttering to himself, --about now having seen everything, and learning something he didn't know before.

I think he exaggerates, :shocked2: but I tune my flintlocks, so that the frizzen opens quickly, and gets out of the way of the sparks being thrown down into the priming powder in the flash pan. Not every flintlock shooter tunes his lock my way, nor achieves these results. I used everything I learned from my friend, and everything I ever learned by reading about flintlocks, and tuning flintlocks, to make my lock fire as fast as possible.

You can turn my flintlock upside down, and fire it, as the sparks get to the powder before gravity can pull the powder away from the pan and TH. A lot of well-tuned locks can do this, however. Its a standard test used by lock "tuners" to test the quality of their work.

I set up my locks so that the edge of the flint strikes at a 60 degree angle to the face of the frizzen, 1/3 of the way down from the top of the frizzen. If the cock and the frizzen are spaced properly apart, the frizzen pops open before the flint moves down another 1/3 of the length(height) of the frizzen. I lighten frizzen springs, so they don't eat flints, and don't slow the opening of the frizzen when sparks are produced. I like a frizzen spring that puts no more than 1.5 lbs. of tension on the frizzen.

I also do some reshaping of my V-spring- mainspring, and the horn on the front of the tumbler, to accelerate the forward movement of the flint as the cock comes over vertical, and begins to fall downwards towards the frizzen. This allows me to lighten the mainspring to about ten pounds of tension, producing plenty of sparks, while speeding up so slightly the timing of the lock. I believe this combination of "tuning" techniques is why my friend believed that my gun fires before the hammer finishes falling.

I am still skeptical about the issue, and have discussed this in person, and by PT with Larry Pletcher, our resident expert( Pletch) at timing flintlocks. The only way to actually test what my friend observed when my lock fired, is to use time lapse photograph taken from the side of the lock as it is fired, and then measure, frame by frame, the time involved for the cock to finish its fall, and compare that to the time when the main charge is ignited- not when the ball comes out the muzzle. So far, we have not set up such a test procedure to try this.

The fact that you can time a flintlock so these are even close questions surprises all those people whose only knowledge about flintlocks came from watching Fess Parker, as Daniel Boone, firing his gun on his TV show. Hollywood didn't know anything about flintlocks, so the opening scene showed his gun with a substantial delay before the main charge fired.

I still get arguments from some people on this forum that THIS IS THE WAY A FLINTLOCK should be fired. After examining some original flintlock actions what were as light as my own, I don't believe this was case, save with the military muskets in most cases. Privately-owned sporting and hunting rifles and smooth bores were tuned, for the most part, Although you do see a lot of poor trigger pulls, and untuned actions when the early breechloaders came on the scene. You paid very good money to buy a gun- muzzle loader, or breech loader-- with a properly tuned lock, in the second half of the 19th century.

So, that is why trying to describe the feeling of shooting a finely made, and tuned flintlock to someone who has never fired one is so difficult to do. Its the difference between watching an exotic dancer and a stripper: Once you have seen an Exotic Dancer perform, you will never mistake a stripper for an exotic dancer. Its the difference between making love to someone who loves you, and just screwing someone who says "yes". :hmm: :shocked2: :hatsoff:

I have nothing but respect for percussion guns. I have no complaints against your T/C rifle at all. Of the commercially produced rifles, these are some of the best made.

What amuses me is how many percussion shooters have NO clue what causes problems in their locks, and rifles, and then have no clue how to fix the problems. They really do expect to take a gun out of the box, load it with whatever powder the clerk hustled them to buy, run some kind of projectile down the barrel, and go shoot a deer!

I have to say, here, that I am unimpressed with the factory booklets provided with new guns, and the information the factory gives about cleaning their guns, and setting them up properly to fire.

NOT that many buyers ever actually READ those booklets! :shocked2: But, you would think the factory would do a better job of writing instructions there, for no other reasons than to make their lawyers happy, and to have the satisfaction of saying to the buyers, " We told you what to do that on page____ in the booklet that came with the gun." :idunno: :thumbsup:

 

[Short Arm]

More smoke

 

[mbokie]

Well, I read the thread and kept thinking about how I could add anything.

I've only fired two shots. So I now jack about flints and not much about muzzle loaders at all. I'm a life long shooter and I'm going to be 62 on the 16th of Jan.

As a long time ball player and student of the game, I compare shooting a flintlock to using a wooden bat and not having a dh in the game.

It's the real deal. It's not the watered down version of hunting and shooting as it is done for the most part these days. It brings me back to a time when everything was more pure, pristine and your fate and fortune was entirely up to you.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I'm beginning to understand. My plans still include building my own gun. Flint or cap is a decision I still haven't made yet.

Let me say one thing unpopular.

It seems one thing in common with flint shooters is the challenge. The satisfaction of doing it the hard way and getting it right. I understand that, but in my life I like to carry that thought to everything. If you're trying to do everything the old way. If you're trying to hunt and shoot as it was done in the era of the gun you're shooting.

You won't hunt from a tree stand. Spot and stalk should be the way you hunt.

I'm just saying. :idunno:

 

[David W.]

I'm beginning to understand. My plans still include building my own gun. Flint or cap is a decision I still haven't made yet.

Let me say one thing unpopular.

It seems one thing in common with flint shooters is the challenge. The satisfaction of doing it the hard way and getting it right. I understand that, but in my life I like to carry that thought to everything. If you're trying to do everything the old way. If you're trying to hunt and shoot as it was done in the era of the gun you're shooting.

You won't hunt from a tree stand. Spot and stalk should be the way you hunt.

I'm just saying. :idunno:

Stalking is the way I've always hunted, Capper! To me, it's no fun sitting in a tree. That's for squirrels!

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Good on you. It's always been my way. I think adding the challenge of a flint would make it even better. :grin: