When to Cap while hunting Elk.

[paulvallandigham]

Skychief: You only address half the problem of leaving a hammer down on a live percussion cap. We have very few reported Accidental Discharges due to guns being dropped enough to give a blow to the hammer sufficient to ignite the cap. However, we do have plenty of incidents reported where something catches on the hammer, lifts it, and then allows it to fall back on the nipple, igniting the cap and the powder charge in the barrel.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I think carrying with the hammer down on a cap is stupid. What if you bump the hammer on something that pulls the hammer back just before catching half cock, and then releases it. It could go off. You might hunt your whole life, and that won't happen. That still doesn't make it safe.

No matter how you carry the gun. It still needs to be cocked to fire. So, we all have to do that. So, in hunting big game i've never had to take a quick shot like you would with bird hunting. I've always had time to cock and put on a cap with a capper. About 3 seconds to do both.

I carry hammer down and not capped. The only safe way as far as i'm concerned.

 

[tg]

The leather cover works very well and is also noiseless if it hits any metal parts, when one quietly trys to get ready for the shot.With cap ot flint I like to keep my hand over the lock when going thru thick stuff to avoid anything catching the hammer, it is basicaly a matter of learning a new discipline wwhen using MLs when hunting and there will be little chance of trouble, there may be some danger in trying to forget this aspect with a lot of gadgets and not developing the focus required for safety with the older technology.

 

[roundball]

Google up "Kap Kover"...its an ideal combination waterproof / safety device for sidelock caplocks...had them on all my caplocks before switching to Flint

+ a bunch!

Carrying with hammer down on a live cap will not happen around me. I will not hunt with anyone that does that. 1/2 cock capped I can abide by and do myself. Hammer down is not acceptable. Experiment with it sometime and see for yourself.

Yes, and from a safety point of view its the exact same principle as using a 'Hammer Stall' on a Flintlock.

And an O-ring goes in a groove machined around the large base of the Hot-Shot nipple...its just up out of sight above the bottom edge of the brass Kap Kover...seals out moisture while providing a positive safety.

Terrific little product...October Country and other places carry them...about $10 bucks as I recall

 

[tg]

"Carrying with hammer down on a live cap will not happen around me. I will not hunt with anyone that does that. 1/2 cock capped I can abide by and do myself. Hammer down is not acceptable. Experiment with it sometime and see for yourself"

I have experimented, and found a piece of leather to work fine and when alone just half cock if carefull has worked for many, I will not tell those who use half cock that I have a devine position over them, good grief.Out of curiosity and not that anyone here really cares what was done in thne past? Were there some holier than though folks giving advice then.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

not developing the focus required for safety with the older technology.

Exactly T.G.
You can't think modern safty when carrying a primitive weapon.
The half cock on a percession rifle is not the same half cock thats on grampies model 94.
without a doubt if you sear fails on half cock you're gun will fire.
It really doesen't matter how you do it as long as you are safely aware of of your firearm.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Hammer down is not acceptable. Experiment with it sometime and see for yourself.

I really don't think you have expermented or even thought about it Brent.
And you will be suprised how many feel hammer down is safer(every one I hunt with and then some).
So if you are so adiment about not hunting with hammer down folk you may be very lonley.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Someone needs to try the following experiment...

Seat the hammer on a capped nipple, then strike blows upon the hammer with increasing force to see how hard a hammer must be hit to detonate the cap. If I had a gun that I didn't mind buggering up the hammer with such an experiment, I would give it a try. I would not doubt that the results might be surprising (one way or the other). One could then extrapolate if said gun would/could fire if dropped from waist height.

Any volunteers? Where's the Bevel brothers when ya need them? :idunno:

Respectfully submitted, Skychief. :thumbsup:

I agree, you only have to snap a cap(no loaded guns :youcrazy: )
I should ask yotie joe if he has a beater gun we can throw on the ground a few times.

 

[roundball]

Just so there's no misunderstanding, nothing I post "tells" anybody to do anything I do...I just post up what I do in case its of any interest to anybody else.

So primitive weapon or not, I'll personally use the safety measures that make sense to me...the same way I chose to use modern medicine to help me try and live longer...or the seat belt I wear driving my 'mule' to my hunting area to try and live longer...or the safety glasses & ear plugs I wear...and on and on.

I'm pretty sure the lack of today's firearms safety measures 'back in the day' played a hand in their short average life span compared to ours now...same as modern medicine reduces some unnecessary deaths.
Don't care at all if somebody else ignores obvious practical safety measures...they just won't ignore them around me and mine.

:thumbsup:

 

[Skychief]

Someone needs to try the following experiment...

Seat the hammer on a capped nipple, then strike blows upon the hammer with increasing force to see how hard a hammer must be hit to detonate the cap. If I had a gun that I didn't mind buggering up the hammer with such an experiment, I would give it a try. I would not doubt that the results might be surprising (one way or the other). One could then extrapolate if said gun would/could fire if dropped from waist height.

Any volunteers? Where's the Bevel brothers when ya need them? :idunno:

Respectfully submitted, Skychief. :thumbsup:

I agree, you only have to snap a cap(no loaded guns :youcrazy: )
I should ask yotie joe if he has a beater gun we can throw on the ground a few times.

Greenmtnboy, ask away! We are catching quite a bit of flak (concern) over our preferred method of carry! :haha: Looks like we are a minority in this regard too!

I don't trust any half-cock more than my biggest safety tool. That tool is between my ears and it is ALWAYS working as I carry HAMMER DOWN!

Paul, as far as carry through thick cover goes, and I have been through tons of it rabbit hunting mainly, I take the time to always be aware of my hammer status. If I need to, my hand will cover the hammer as I make my way through thick cover, muzzle up. I should say, that I have been in situations where a tangle of Indiana Greenbriar has snared me from one end to the other. :shocked2: At times as this, the cap comes off as I whimper and gnash my teeth out of a fix that requires ALL my attention.

I am not trying to advocate how anybody handles their caplocks (that's one's own business if I am not hunting with them), but this manner of carrying, I am very familiar and comfortable with.

A mechanical "safety" never trumps safe handling (muzzle and hammer awareness, for two) in my opinion. The best safety going is the one between our ears, if we will use it!

Best regards, Skychief.

 

[roundball]

A mechanical "safety" never trumps safe handling (muzzle and hammer awareness, for two) in my opinion. The best safety going is the one between our ears, if we will use it!

No question about that...they're not intended to.
A mechanical safety is not designed so one can disengage their brain...its an 'extra' layer of safety because no matter how great we think we are, we're still humans, and its proven that with humans, $#%@#& happens.

The mechanical safety is simply additional insurance for when that $#%@#& eventually does happen...and it surely will

:v

 

[Brent]

I really don't think you have expermented or even thought about it Brent.
And you will be suprised how many feel hammer down is safer(every one I hunt with and then some).
So if you are so adiment about not hunting with hammer down folk you may be very lonley.

Indeed, I have, quite a bit because I have a friend who likes to hunt that way. We no longer hunt together with muzzleloaders or he will not carry hammer down. It's really pretty easy to demonstrate to one's self - something I guess you have yet to do.

I have no problem with folks that hunt hammer down at all. They just don't hunt with me. Never a problem.

 

[hoochiepapa]

I hunt alone, so it's not an issue. And I don't bust brush, either. But I also carry my percussion with a cap on, and at half cock. Makes less noise when the time comes, instead of "clack clack",there is only "clack". I use those little "rubbers" for caulking tubes to cover the cap when it's raining or snowing. The gun will fire with no problema when it needs to.

 

[Vaino]

Our entire elk hunting party caps in the tent under light, slings the rifle at half cock and goes hunting. If someone would prefer to carry their rifle w/ the hammer down, so be it...don't see where that would be a problem. We're all adults, observe strict safety rules which mainly prohibit pointing the rifle at a human so whether the hammer is at half cock or down on the cap, is a non-issue. I imagine the reason some prefer "hammer down" is that a loose fitting cap might fall off or that they think the hammer might unexpectantly release and both are valid reasons for their choice. A much more important reason for not having a person in the hunting party is not obeying the safety rules or because the individual just doesn't fit in....Fred

 

[paulvallandigham]

Skychief: How many times does it take for you to get tangled up in briars before you stop DOING THAT? I repeat, DON'T BUST BRUSH. I know that rabbit hunting is one of those games of hunting, where making a lot of noise can actually be beneficial( sometimes), as spooking rabbits to run occasionally will make one of them come out into your view, or into the view and range of a partner. That is why we use noisy dogs to hunt rabbits.

But, being tangled up in briars, or kudzu, or any other kind of brush is NO WAY to be able to shoot a gun effectively, now is it. That is why I am fairly adamant about people learning to watch the ground, watch their feet, and follow existing game trails, rather than try to bust through brush of any height. If you are stomping through brush, you are signalling your exact location. Unless you are hunting with several friends, the chance of having a rabbit break out towards you is remote. Only the stupid ones do that, and they don't live very long.

The only reason I extend my advice is because I have really BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT. It took years for me to learn to do it better, and doing it better works better, EVERY TIME. I want you younger guys to have more successful hunts. If you succeed, you are more likely to pass on these skills to even younger hunters, and the skills won't be lost.

am a tracker at my core, and stalking to within a stone's throw of all wild game has been a constant goal for me since I was a kid. The closer I get to an animal without spooking it, the better I feel about my efforts. Much of my early life was spent where I could not legally hunt game with either a gun or bow and arrow. I hunted by tracking game. When I could not get out into the fields, I tracked people walking to school in fresh, and old snow. Sometimes, I found tracks in the fields of people, and followed them to find out why they were there, and where they went. Some tracks were in snow; others in mud, or damp ground; and others mere scruff marks on hard clay. I slowly learned how to use light to see more and more tracks and "sign". But, in the process, I found that few animals( other than domestic dogs) Bust Brush, and then only when they are chasing game, like rabbits. When a dog hunts with his nose, he follows the game trails. Smart dog. :shocked2: :blah: :surrender: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[2ELK]

Thanks everyone for all of your great input. I now have a better appreciation for what is available and practiced in the field. Safety is my main concern, and your suggestions will be a big help.

Best hunting,

TIM

 

[longcruise]

Paul, your points are well taken, but you must consider that sometimes brush busting is all about getting where you are going. That is very applicable in the Rockies and especially while elk hunting. There is not always a good game trail to follow and a thick wall of willows can sometimes be a long long walk around.

 

[Bill Hall]

Yep. But what really sucks is when you get part way into those thick areas, and realize the only way out is the way you came in. Frustrating. Bill

 

[paulvallandigham]

i understand the argument, truly, I do. I have used it in the past before, myself. However, If the brush is so thick that no animal trail penetrates it, I now go around.

Going around may be Longer, but it almost always is easier, and more safe when it comes to carrying a loaded gun.

My knees, hips, and ankles have all shown the ravages of time, and accumulated injuries. If I bust brush now, I am pretty much through for the day, and need to go back to camp, or go home. My legs and back simply can't take the abuse.

And going through that brush will make a lot of noise that locates you for all the Elk that may be on the other side. Put yourself in the place of an Elk, taking a nap in the sun on a warm day in the fall, dozing, when all of a sudden, something that makes the noise of a Bulldozer begins coming your way. How will you react if all of a sudden a Bulldozer comes towards you in the woods? Or a tank??

I don't have mountains here, but we have ditches, with steep sides, and often deep water, that can twist an ankle or break a leg in no time flat. In forested areas, along rivers and streams, we have deadfalls of all kinds to negotiate, along with bramble, kudzu, and all manner of plants and shrubs that will stick you, stab you, or cut you. Hawnthorne trees, and Locust trees come to mind. We have lots of poison oak and poison ivy to make life interesting, too. :thumbsup:

 

[FishDFly]

Our entire elk hunting party caps in the tent under light, slings the rifle at half cock and goes hunting. If someone would prefer to carry their rifle w/ the hammer down, so be it...don't see where that would be a problem. We're all adults, observe strict safety rules which mainly prohibit pointing the rifle at a human so whether the hammer is at half cock or down on the cap, is a non-issue. I imagine the reason some prefer "hammer down" is that a loose fitting cap might fall off or that they think the hammer might unexpectantly release and both are valid reasons for their choice. A much more important reason for not having a person in the hunting party is not obeying the safety rules or because the individual just doesn't fit in....Fred

Folks hunt and associate with like minded folks. If you don't associate or hunt hunt with like minded folks, you go alone.

Seems kind of simple to me, not much of a thought process to be happy and feel safe.

Seems your group has a set of safety rules which all are happy with, that is what is important.

Not much else a person could add.