When to change touch hole liner?

[APG]

So I have had my first ( for now) flintlock for several months now and I love it. It's a Traditions Kentucky flintlock rifle. I know it's on the lower end of the flintlock family but I didn't want to spend too much my first go at it. But I see a Kibler in my future, hopefully. Anyhow I was wondering how you tell if the touch hole liner needs to be replaced? Thank you in advance for helping me out.

 

[TDM]

That one looks great. Unless you bugger up the vent hole those SS liners last a long time. Congratulations on your new rifle!

 

[Grenadier1758]

When accuracy falls off or your touch hole has become large enough for the main charge to auto fill your pan on loading.

With modest charges for the range or hunting, you should be able to get off quite a few thousand shots.

 

[APG]

So I have had my first ( for now) flintlock for several months now and I love it. It's a Traditions Kentucky flintlock rifle. I know it's on the lower end of the flintlock family but I didn't want to spend too much my first go at it. But I see a Kibler in my future, hopefully. Anyhow I was wondering how you tell if the touch hole liner needs to be replaced? Thank you in advance for helping me out.

Well the liner I'm holding should look good, it's brand new. I bought it just because I didn't have a spare. Good to know that they last a long time. Thanks.

 

[ord sgt]

Hot gases from the pan and main charge in the barrel will slowly erode the vent liner hole over time. Big powder charges in the barrel, more erosion. Same with cap lock rifles and the nipple.
Mainly it will depend on how much shooting is involved. I have several flintlock rifles and I switch between those rifles, so the touch holes last for years. Cap locks too.
It pays to have some spare liners on hand. Visual inspection comparing a new liner and the one in your firearm will finally show the difference in the size of the touch hole.

 

[Flintlock]

When the guy shooting on the right of you head erupts in flame you may need a new liner or move to the far right of the line. lol

 

[zimmerstutzen]

when you can load a 177 pellet in the touch hole and simultaneously shoot the guy next to you and the target. Seriously though, a touch hole should last you thousands of shots. You stand a bigger chance of cross threading the thing from taking it in and out for cleaning. (a fair number of shooters never remove the touch hole liner until time for a new one.) I had touch hole liners in match guns that I never removed in 40 years. I have purchased a few used flintlocks that had tough hole liner holes that were too big and they spit all kinds of fire and soot out the touch hole when firing. Used a stud remover to turn it out and install a new one, because it had no slot or allen socket.

 

[2 shots]

light coat of never seize and leave it in. you dont want to ware out the threads in barrel or strip them

 

[Erwan]

During the life of a vent, the value of the dispersion cone increases irremediably, it is when this value of the dispersion cone becomes too important and starts to cause an unacceptable and irreversible dispersion that it will be necessary to think of replacing this vent...
Most of the time the dispersion appears around .080", and, in the same way, the powder passes alone in the pan during loading, the ignition becomes faster (the old rifles or muskets were often voluntarily modified in this way by the troop and enlarging a vent was worth a punishment) at this moment it becomes imperative to put a pin or a feather during loading: it is at this moment that it is necessary to think seriously of having to change the liner soon...
Of course, this is much more noticeable in the case of target shooting...

 

[JamesT]

I had a .54 caliber early conial rifle once with I believe a one and 1/8th" barrel at the breach with no vent liner. I was determined to make it work as an original so by the time I got the vent big enough to be 100 percent reliable it would self prime the pan. Never thought to plug the vent with a toothpick or feather while loading I would just close the frizzen and load at half ****. It worked but not the safest way to do things these days. Sorry to go off on a tangent but my point is when you start pushing the charge out of your vent liner it is prolly time for a new one. Otherwise it's fine. Use a brass or soft material pick as opposed to a steel or iron one and don't pick aggressively and your liner should last forever really.

 

[M. De Land]

So I have had my first ( for now) flintlock for several months now and I love it. It's a Traditions Kentucky flintlock rifle. I know it's on the lower end of the flintlock family but I didn't want to spend too much my first go at it. But I see a Kibler in my future, hopefully. Anyhow I was wondering how you tell if the touch hole liner needs to be replaced? Thank you in advance for helping me out.

I've not yet shot enough flint gun to burn one out but I have percussion nipples and when the orifice becomes oblong from erosion or accuracy drops off it's time for a change. I can't believe liners would be much if any different in how they behave.
The trouble with accuracy fall off is that most of our competitions are off hand and what would show up almost immediately from the bench would take longer to detect in off hand shooting.

 

[sheriff john]

Agree with 2 shots. Keep that liner greased with something from the get-go and every now and then, take it out to look at and re-grease. Liners "frozen" in their holes are an avoidable pain, Have fun, by the way.

 

[Art Caputo]

I’d be curious if anyone has any data on how many shots it takes to have a material change in flash hole dimension due to shooting erosion. I have not noted measurable erosion with my rifles over the years which have probably seen between somewhere between 500 and 1000 shots. Most of my rifles have White Lightning liners, or liners without screwdriver or Allen wrench provision. Replacements I have observed were not necessarily due to shooting erosion, but due to the aggressive use of picks to clear the flash hole which can quickly wear/distort the flash hole over time, or, liners that prematurely wear, or even fracture due to screw slots that were cut too deeply, leaving insufficient thickness/support in the flash hole area.

 

[mmb617]

I have several Traditions rifles. The one with the most shots on it is a Deerhunter with well over 1000 shots and the touch hole liner still looks new to me. No noticeable wear or problems with performance. I only shoot moderate loads of 50 grains so maybe someone pushing max loads would see wear that I don't.

I have spare liners but realistically I doubt I'll ever wear one out.

 

[Quicksilver]

So I have had my first ( for now) flintlock for several months now and I love it. It's a Traditions Kentucky flintlock rifle. I know it's on the lower end of the flintlock family but I didn't want to spend too much my first go at it. But I see a Kibler in my future, hopefully. Anyhow I was wondering how you tell if the touch hole liner needs to be replaced? Thank you in advance for helping me out.

Thanks for asking this question, something I have wondered about myself.

 

[Don Steele]

I’d be curious if anyone has any data on how many shots it takes to have a material change in flash hole dimension due to shooting erosion. I have not noted measurable erosion with my rifles over the years which have probably seen between somewhere between 500 and 1000 shots. Most of my rifles have White Lightning liners, or liners without screwdriver or Allen wrench provision. Replacements I have observed were not necessarily due to shooting erosion, but due to the aggressive use of picks to clear the flash hole which can quickly wear/distort the flash hole over time, or, liners that prematurely wear, or even fracture due to screw slots that were cut too deeply, leaving insufficient thickness/support in the flash hole area.

Art,
During my my first experience with a Chambers White Lightnin' liner, I kept track of rounds fired from my 40 caliber rifle. I was using a modest charge of 40-45 gns. Goex 3f throughout the entire time. At about 3,000 rds. the rifle was "self-priming" enough that I decided to replace the liner. Of course, the decision is subjective. When is "too much" powder coming through the eroded vent ? Unfortunately, I didn't measure and record the size of the vent hole at that point but I was keeping track of the round count.
I'll also add that in conversation with Jim ( Chambers) he recommended opening my new liner to approx. .062 ( 1/16th is .0625 btw) for a guy like myself for whom 100% reliability is critical. Unless I'm doing load testing, that particular rifle is ONLY fired offhand. In Club matches, small game hunting, and Woods Walk competitions...reliability is more important than the size of the "one ragged hole" group I can get off a rest.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Art,
During my my first experience with a Chambers White Lightnin' liner, I kept track of rounds fired from my 40 caliber rifle. I was using a modest charge of 40-45 gns. Goex 3f throughout the entire time. At about 3,000 rds. the rifle was "self-priming" enough that I decided to replace the liner. Of course, the decision is subjective. When is "too much" powder coming through the eroded vent ? Unfortunately, I didn't measure and record the size of the vent hole at that point but I was keeping track of the round count.
I'll also add that in conversation with Jim ( Chambers) he recommended opening my new liner to approx. .062 ( 1/16th is .0625 btw) for a guy like myself for whom 100% reliability is critical. Unless I'm doing load testing, that particular rifle is ONLY fired offhand. In Club matches, small game hunting, and Woods Walk competitions...reliability is more important than the size of the "one ragged hole" group I can get off a rest.

and for bench, cross stick and chunk shooters, the hole in the target is all that matters. (I have always been a lousy offhand rifle shooter, but still had good days sometimes)

 

[cal.43]

you have to replace the liner if the ball roll out
normaly I replace mine if it´s bigger than 2mm

 

[Shadowalker164]

APG…
Thanks for posting that pix. I did not know what the business end of a liner looked like

 

[Darkhorse]

FWIW 20 or 30 years ago when I was building my first rifle I called Jim Chambers place of buisness and asked them about the touchhole size. This is what I was told. In the years since it has worked to perfection and I'm very picky about the performance of my lock and rifle.
"When you first go to the range bring along a set of number drills. A number drill as a whole is smaller than most drills and allows you to make an incrementaly larger diameter hole without going too big. Go ahead and drill the touchhole out to .0625 (1/16) and fire your gun a few times to judge performance. If it suits you stop right there. If not drill it a size larger and shoot it some more.When the speed suits you stop there. Now take a small countersink and spin it in the hole to remove any burrs."
FYI If you are new to flintlocks you can't really judge speed and performance yet. So just drill it out .0625 and shoot it for a month or so. If you then feel it needs to be larger then go only 1 size larger at that time. This way you sneak up on the hole without going too big and ruining it.