Where do you draw the line?

[Snake Pleskin]

If the biggest problem someone has in life is being called a "stitch nazi", they are truly lucky! There are many many worse issue & problem people have to deal with daily. I stopped doing the re-enactment (civil war) because it was getting too time consuming & costly, too many rules, and less fun. When the fun starts to go down hill, its time to move on (IMHO). I no longer think it is fun, cute, HC etc to sit in 100 degree heat, mud, 2in of rain, an old tent, no way to cook easily, and lack of real sanitary facilities. I think if anyone form the past came today and saw people forgoing our conveniences to "play" in the past, they would think we were all crazy. I understand the challenge to be HC correct, but not at the expense of my health & welfare. I need real boots, real weather appropriate clothes, and real amenities. Just my opinion. I love the ML ,but when the SHTF ,none of you reach for that to save the day.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I thought this was called "The Muzzleloading Forum "? A place to discuss "MUZZLELOADING". Yes, I am a purist. I only shoot muzzleloaders. I didn't join this forum to discuss cartridge guns be they black powder or not.

Simple, don't join the discussion. Problem solved.

 

[sturmkatze]

Well because only "myopinion matters"!

Nah, because it kind of has a rolling and building rage. Whatev, not my group. I can stay in the fire.

 

[sturmkatze]

Once again, you don't seem to be able to comprehend anything I have said.
No, I do not think some group of "old guys" are constraining me. In fact, there were very few "old guys" there. I don't think a single one of them had reached my age yet.
And I have never used the term "a damned fool" or the term "stitch nazi" when referring to re-enactors -
Why are you so intent on saying things that are simply not true?
I was not interested in joining this particular group. Their "modus operandi" just did not fit my idea of recreational enjoyment.
I did not belittle them, denigrate them or in any way find what they are doing distasteful or offensive.
The group was exclusive of anyone that did not follow their rules, so I politely excused myself and left.
Nothing here to go off in a tirade about.

Fine. You left. Great. Now what are you doing?

 

[sturmkatze]

If the biggest problem someone has in life is being called a "stitch nazi", they are truly lucky! There are many many worse issue & problem people have to deal with daily. I stopped doing the re-enactment (civil war) because it was getting too time consuming & costly, too many rules, and less fun. When the fun starts to go down hill, its time to move on (IMHO). I no longer think it is fun, cute, HC etc to sit in 100 degree heat, mud, 2in of rain, an old tent, no way to cook easily, and lack of real sanitary facilities. I think if anyone form the past came today and saw people forgoing our conveniences to "play" in the past, they would think we were all crazy. I understand the challenge to be HC correct, but not at the expense of my health & welfare. I need real boots, real weather appropriate clothes, and real amenities. Just my opinion. I love the ML ,but when the SHTF ,none of you reach for that to save the day.

Yep. Some times you just reach a point of "nah". I fee a rule about not eating wool between memorial day and labor day. If I can't breathe, it ain't fun. If it ain't fun, why do it. In some reenacting, there are just too many events. As you get older, real life interferes.

 

[1BadDart]

If the biggest problem someone has in life is being called a "stitch nazi", they are truly lucky! There are many many worse issue & problem people have to deal with daily. I stopped doing the re-enactment (civil war) because it was getting too time consuming & costly, too many rules, and less fun. When the fun starts to go down hill, its time to move on (IMHO). I no longer think it is fun, cute, HC etc to sit in 100 degree heat, mud, 2in of rain, an old tent, no way to cook easily, and lack of real sanitary facilities. I think if anyone form the past came today and saw people forgoing our conveniences to "play" in the past, they would think we were all crazy. I understand the challenge to be HC correct, but not at the expense of my health & welfare. I need real boots, real weather appropriate clothes, and real amenities. Just my opinion. I love the ML ,but when the SHTF ,none of you reach for that to save the day.

One time when I was a kid I was somewhere with my Dad, there were other men around his age and they were talking about the "good old days". My Dad told them they could have all of "the good old days" they wanted, but he didn't want any part of it, because the "good old days" about killed him.

My Dad was born in 1929 and was raised working hard on the family farm. He had to quit school when he was 13 because his four older brothers had gone to fight in WWII and he was the next oldest son. There wasn't enough time for school and work.

 

[Howard Pippin]

One time when I was a kid I was somewhere with my Dad, there were other men around his age and they were talking about the "good old days". My Dad told them they could have all of "the good old days" they wanted, but he didn't want any part of it, because the "good old days" about killed him.

My Dad was born in 1929 and was raised working hard on the family farm. He had to quit school when he was 13 because his four older brothers had gone to fight in WWII and he was the next oldest son. There wasn't enough time for school and work.

Good way of putting it. My mother passed away in 2011 at 100 years of age, rest her soul, always said," the best thing about the good old days is that they are gone. "She too came through some pretty hard times.
Squint

 

[tenngun]

1) No one wants to talk people into doing something they don’t want to do.
Any group that dresses in funny clothes, eats corn mush and salt pork, and sleeps in wool doesn’t expect any one to join them that doesn’t want to play.
2) this is a recreational activity. First thing I do when I quit the event or come home from a trek is shower. And my HVAC system sure feels good.
Was life in the past better then today? Well they had their problems, and we have problems they could never even conceive.
Yes, I’ve slept well below freezing, I’ve been wet and covered in mud. I’ve eaten sausage and cheese for dinner cause it was too wet to cook.
I’ve spent all day in the shade cause it was too hot to do anything else.
There are some advantages to modern backpacking compared to treking, but not many. When it’s cold it’s cold, wet it’s wet, and hot it’s hot. Yet folks do it.
You don’t have to excuse you not wanting to do it. No one’s going to draft you.
There is joy to be found in doing it right, in striving for a taste of frontier life or military camp. But only if you want it.
Yes and WBTS soldier or real life deer slayer, Santa Fe trail mule skinner, homesteader ect would look at us and think we’re crazy.
And we are
But don’t belittle the game cause you don’t want to play.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

1) No one wants to talk people into doing something they don’t want to do.
Any group that dresses in funny clothes, eats corn mush and salt pork, and sleeps in wool doesn’t expect any one to join them that doesn’t want to play.
2) this is a recreational activity. First thing I do when I quit the event or come home from a trek is shower. And my HVAC system sure feels good.
Was life in the past better then today? Well they had their problems, and we have problems they could never even conceive.
Yes, I’ve slept well below freezing, I’ve been wet and covered in mud. I’ve eaten sausage and cheese for dinner cause it was too wet to cook.
I’ve spent all day in the shade cause it was too hot to do anything else.
There are some advantages to modern backpacking compared to treking, but not many. When it’s cold it’s cold, wet it’s wet, and hot it’s hot. Yet folks do it.
You don’t have to excuse you not wanting to do it. No one’s going to draft you.
There is joy to be found in doing it right, in striving for a taste of frontier life or military camp. But only if you want it.
Yes and WBTS soldier or real life deer slayer, Santa Fe trail mule skinner, homesteader ect would look at us and think we’re crazy.
And we are
But don’t belittle the game cause you don’t want to play.

I agree, but when you say play, that usually equates to some form of fun.(IMHO) I have done much of what you said above on various hunting trips, and No it was not much fun at that moment, but we persevered in order to get the job done. I think if people want to reenact and try their best to be as correct as they can be, go for it. But they too, should not look down on those who don't want to play by their rules. To each his own IMHO

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Some of my fondest memories involve some of the hardest days I’ve spent in the field.

 

[tenngun]

I agree, but when you say play, that usually equates to some form of fun.(IMHO) I have done much of what you said above on various hunting trips, and No it was not much fun at that moment, but we persevered in order to get the job done. I think if people want to reenact and try their best to be as correct as they can be, go for it. But they too, should not look down on those who don't want to play by their rules. To each his own IMHO

Some sort of fun. Rock climbers have fun, or marathon runners
I’ve sat under a bluff, near zero weather and wet. A blanket around me, a candle between my crossed legs. I was aching from one position so long. Yet it was fun.
Crazy I know. But the knowledge that I was sharing an experience with out forefathers brought me joy. About three am I had a smoke. The sky was so clear. Orion was in the west, the Pleiades near the horizon.
Kenton was cold and as achy as I was, looking at that same sky.
Indians wanted to kill him. A bad hunt for me is no biggie, for him people starved
When the sun came up a few mile hike returned me to my car and warmth. For him, a long dangerous walk and a none to warm room.
But for one moment I shared with him. The cold on my shoulders, the warmth in my lap. The muscle ache and cramping. The taste of my pipe stem. The silence of the cold woods, the feel of the wool, and the smell of the dampness of some of it.
And yes I was having fun
Masochist? Maybe
Was just to the Pomme de Terre rendezvous
Was knee deep in mud Wednesday and Thursday, and yet I was having a blast
Can’t tell you what’s fun about wet feet and everything muddy.
You either find it fun or not
I had a friend who joined the army. (CSA)
Military boys get up at dawn, parade, stand guard, all dress the same, eat communal meals, march, then march some more, then later get some matching in.
It takes practice to be able to maneuver on a battlefield, even in reinactment, and get together a are where the practice.
He had a blast.
I went with him once, didn’t care for it.
That’s life

 

[Griz44Mag]

Fine. You left. Great. Now what are you doing?

Very simple answer here.
I shoot and hunt with friends, some of whom I have been shooting and hunting with for 60 years.
Some of them shoot muzzleloaders, some do not.
I am in that camp - I shoot and hunt with my muzzleloaders of which I have a collection that includes flints, percussions, and a couple of touch hole fired handgonnes.
My interests also include long range precision, which only 2 of my shooting buddies partake.
If you want some challenging shooting try 3" gongs at 1000 yards, or standing steel buffalos at 1500 yards.
The shooting sports have a lot to enjoy - and the only "dress up" that I enjoy is full cammo when turkey or free range deer hunting.

 

[tenngun]

I think a lot got confused by the question. No ‘stitch Nazi’ cares if one shoots an in-line, no one cares if one dresses like a campy 1960s westren.
Even the most dedicated stitch counter runs in to the realities of living in the here and now.
‘Where do you draw the line?’
I try to be hc, far from perfect
Should one join an historic group one will be expected to meet the rules of that group. Should one not want to play by the rules that’s ok, just don’t fight the rules.
Ft Charter has a juried event. I got to go. It was fun.
However they had what I think is unreasonable rules. No Bakers is a rule.
I don’t think that represents historic fact, but I bought a wedge tent so I don’t ever have to argue about a baker. I asked to go to Charters. I expected to play by their rules. They didn’t come knocking on my door.
We used to have a member named Black Hand.
I argued with him at times over details.
But, he never cared if x was used by a shooter. His sole criteria was if it was historic when used in an historic setting.
Ones part of a WBTS group. They go to first Manasses/ Bull Run. They want to fly a Hank Williams southern cross flag. They are told no they can’t fly that.
It’s not historic. Fly it all you want, but in a historic group you need play by those rules
Where do you draw the line?
I draw it at not trying, if you want an historic kit I think you need to be historic. It takes time and learning and new discoveries, always growing.
You don’t want to be historic that’s ok.
No one says you have to.

 

[sturmkatze]

Very simple answer here.
I shoot and hunt with friends, some of whom I have been shooting and hunting with for 60 years.
Some of them shoot muzzleloaders, some do not.
I am in that camp - I shoot and hunt with my muzzleloaders of which I have a collection that includes flints, percussions, and a couple of touch hole fired handgonnes.
My interests also include long range precision, which only 2 of my shooting buddies partake.
If you want some challenging shooting try 3" gongs at 1000 yards, or standing steel buffalos at 1500 yards.
The shooting sports have a lot to enjoy - and the only "dress up" that I enjoy is full cammo when turkey or free range deer hunting.

Again, you insult those who wish to do it historically. You're mad they told you to leave. Buh bye. No one hated on you, they just wanted you to follow their rules and you'd be welcome. You made your choice.

 

[cannonball1]

Again, you insult those who wish to do it historically. You're mad they told you to leave. Buh bye. No one hated on you, they just wanted you to follow their rules and you'd be welcome. You made your choice.

I am with Grizz. Love to make and shoot accurate looking Period Muzzleloaders. I also like to watch historically correct shoots, but that's just not me. I just say to each their own - - just follow the rules. The one exception that grinds on me is period accurate clothing in one of those period shoots where the shooter has a TC Hawken. It might follow the rules, but certainly looks out of place. We were going hunting and camping one year. Had our trailer ready and I, in my modern way, wanted a video to watch during the night in the trailer. I purchased a civil war re-enactment video from Walmart and I thought we were going to die laughing with all the guys with their period clothes and a couple with TC Hawkens. A rubber hose was even seen in the background of one of the sets.

All I can say is if you are going to do the primitive stuff, use period correct looking guns. I say this is not the old Hollywood and needs the new authenticity if that's your thing. There is room for all of us, but geeze, don't show up at a primitive period correct shoot with hand sewn clothes and modern looking side hammer, just cause it qualifies and you can - - - Just because it shoots #11 caps doesn't do for me.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Frankly I think the whole idea of period correct, historically correct is taken Wa-a-a-y to far, and some people just need to get a "life", LOL! You are going to wake up one day and look around and find there are no more people taking up this aspect of shooting, because it became to onerous, nit picking, time consuming and problematic. The object should be to get people to shoot, and shoot what ever they have or can afford! Does it matter that they built a Kibler Kit? NO, or that F House, Peter Alexander, Martin or Emig built their rifle, NO or they use a Pedersoli, Thompson Center, Caywood, NorthStar or one other firearm made in India? NO! It matters that they are shooting! Time to embrace all who want to shoot and stop worrying about what they "look" like doing it. Just one man's opinion.

 

[Newtire]

I’ve been doing this for a while now, and after seeing and hearing a great many “expert opinions” I formed a personal approach to such folks. I listen carefully and politely, thank them for their inputs and ignore them from then on. My good friend and hunting partner for many years, Jim B., was a former Korean Conflict Marine and stood “5 foot 18” in his moccasins according to his own claim, and ran about 250 pounds. At one gathering of the HC crowd, he was told that a deputation of two was going to “check his clothing for correctness” before allowing him on the grounds — to which he had been invited. Jim looked at them and replied, “Well, I think you need more help before you try checking MY clothing.” They went off to think about that and he left, never to return.
There was nothing incorrect about his outfit. He knew that, and would have answered polite questions, but he had a problem with rudeness.
Me too.

One Saturday, a local m/l club was scheduled to have an event at my local range. I decided to go check it out, so loaded up all my m/l armament I had at the time. That was my Great Grandpa's 1850ish target rifle. I arrived early and set up down at the end so as not to be in anyone's way. I was happily plinking away when one of the BS'ers (the pesident of the group I later learned) came over to check me out.

First thing he says is, "You won't be allowed to shoot in our events with that peep sight on there!" I told him that I had just come to see what they were all about and that I was a member of that range. Then he took a closer look at my gun and offered to buy it. Told me I needed to get some buckskins and look the part. Finally told me that he would let me shoot that one time.

The whole interaction put a sour taste in my mind and I never pusued becoming a buckskinner after that.

I think more people would get interested in this sort of thing if you
eased them into it rather than start by criticizing them. While I don't necessarily despise modern muzzle loaders with plastic stocks and have no interest in buying one, I have enough good manners not to start out by telling someone that they are not welcome at their own range. We don't need any more wedges driven in between us if we expect to go on enjoying our shooting sports.

 

[1BadDart]

Frankly I think the whole idea of period correct, historically correct is taken Wa-a-a-y to far, and some people just need to get a "life", LOL! You are going to wake up one day and look around and find there are no more people taking up this aspect of shooting, because it became to onerous, nit picking, time consuming and problematic. The object should be to get people to shoot, and shoot what ever they have or can afford! Does it matter that they built a Kibler Kit? NO, or that F House, Peter Alexander, Martin or Emig built their rifle, NO or they use a Pedersoli, Thompson Center, Caywood, NorthStar or one other firearm made in India? NO! It matters that they are shooting! Time to embrace all who want to shoot and stop worrying about what they "look" like doing it. Just one man's opinion.

I agree. The car hobby is loaded with "experts" who are more than happy to point out what's wrong with you car, then point out why their car is much better. Guys like that are the reason I stopped doing car shows years ago. Plus I like hot rods and as a general rule hot rodders don't give a rip about originality.

 

[Newtire]

I am with Grizz. Love to make and shoot accurate looking Period Muzzleloaders. I also like to watch historically correct shoots, but that's just not me. I just say to each their own - - just follow the rules. The one exception that grinds on me is period accurate clothing in one of those period shoots where the shooter has a TC Hawken. It might follow the rules, but certainly looks out of place. We were going hunting and camping one year. Had our trailer ready and I, in my modern way, wanted a video to watch during the night in the trailer. I purchased a civil war re-enactment video from Walmart and I thought we were going to die laughing with all the guys with their period clothes and a couple with TC Hawkens. A rubber hose was even seen in the background of one of the sets.

All I can say is if you are going to do the primitive stuff, use period correct looking guns. I say this is not the old Hollywood and needs the new authenticity if that's your thing. There is room for all of us, but geeze, don't show up at a primitive period correct shoot with hand sewn clothes and modern looking side hammer, just cause it qualifies and you can - - - Just because it shoots #11 caps doesn't do for me.

Lots of people comment about those guns with only one barrel wedge not being authentic but I had an original with a .50 bore when I was just a kid. It was a smooth bore that I bought from a friend for $5.00. No markings of any kind on it, percussion, walnut stock and a steel buttplate. It resembled a T/C "Hawken" more than anything.

Off topic a bit but I remember seeing a cowboy TV series show one time with a Marlin 336 type rifle in it. Their prop man might have been on vacation?

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Aint no one has a lap welded barrel, you dont hear them complaining.
PC can go on forever. I was that way in the 90s, even got pictures in a national magazine.
The sad part is 90% of the things I had to have, are no longer available.
Kinda glad I when overboard in the 90s.

I have more black powder cartridge pieces. I only have one muzzle loading rifle.
When Im here I leave those out of the conversion.