Where do you draw the line?

[French Colonial]

Funny, reading through the research in the Kaskaskia manuscripts I see no mention of scurvy, STD's or the like.

References to cheating at cards, desertions of soldiers, weddings, births and Sans Chagrin insulting his betters. Regulations for when livestock must be removed from the fields and correspondence regarding the government flotilla to New Orleans and back.

The Kaskaskia manuscripts are primary documentation of life as it was lived. It probably was not as good or as bad as we imagine, just life lived as best they could in the environment they were in.

 

[French Colonial]

As far as the percentages of diseases I would also like to see some documentation. Where did these numbers come from?

I find it hard to believe scurvy would be a problem among residents of areas where there was an abundance of fresh food available i.e. Fort de Chartres and Kaskaskia, lets see where your numbers come from.

 

[doubleset]

As far as the percentages of diseases I would also like to see some documentation. Where did these numbers come from?

I find it hard to believe scurvy would be a problem among residents of areas where there was an abundance of fresh food available i.e. Fort de Chartres and Kaskaskia, lets see where your numbers come from.

I did not take the numbers or the specific diseases to be an attempt at accuracy in this case, but they may be for all I know. Although, just in terms of speculation, it's not difficult to imagine it to be challanging in the mountains during the long winters to keep up with your vitamin intake. It would be interesting to know how they did that (Store stuff for over the winter in camps? Sources other than fruits and vegetables? Dried fruits?) In fact now I'm curious about what fruits they did have access to even during the year -- particularly in the north.

And there is this: Scurvy and the Lewis & Clark Expedition.

Mountain men also faced problems with infectious diseases (such scarlet fever, smallpox, pneumonia, etc.) that we hardly give a second thought today. Although the life of a mountain man -- outside of any population center -- would have been much less risky for at least some of those diseases. In addition, they were somewhat the result of genetic selection for robustness already because so many "weaker" individuals died as children (not counting the ones that died in childbirth).

So it's probably the case that being a mountain man or longhunter was a relatively healthy occupation -- relative to the alternatives of the time -- just because you wouldn't be around large groups of other people much.

 

[French Colonial]

As my main focus has always been the time of 1680-1760 or so in the French area primarily and also to some extent longhunters in early KY TN I have only passing knowledge of the mountain man era.
I will refrain from comments on a subject I know little about and defer to others who have researched that era.

 

[jimhallam]

It was meant as an off beat joke. At 74 I'm most likely in the old folks group myself.

Lia Thomas is the male swimmer who claims to be a girl and is breaking many records as a "female" or transgender swimmer.
In other words, if we show up at a shoot with our usual traditional guns and gear we would probably get beat by someone with a "modern muzzleloader" with a scope etc. Maybe.

So have different CLASSES --- but hope that some of the "modernists" will start to appreciate the traditions?

 

[jimhallam]

.223 Remington center fire. Happy?

Depends what for ................ horses for courses!

 

[Archer 756]

Who Really Cares JUST HAVE FUN

 

[Mad L]

Who Really Cares JUST HAVE FUN

That kind of mindset is what led to the demise of GAoP Reenactments; now instead of pirates, buccaneers, and privateers they have; mermaids, tinkerbells, MIB, steampunks, and 'What in Heck is That?'

Ya, ya kinda gotta draw a line somewhere.

 

[hinamanra]

I read somewhere that the average life expectancy of a mountain man was 64 which was higher than the national average of 40. So if your attending a juried event of that time frame and are that age or older is you persona the ghost of a mountain man?

 

[Art Caputo]

None of the above…

 

[toot]

remember the hunters prayer- OH LORD, PLEASE LET ME KILL CLEAN OR LET ME MISS CLEAN!

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

So have different CLASSES --- but hope that some of the "modernists" will start to appreciate the traditions?

Probably a forlorn hope, Jim. There seems to be a new class of members here that don't care about tradition at all and go to great lengths to disparage it. I can't fathom why they'd join a forum dedicated to tradition. More and more, I tend to think of them as a form of troll.

 

[Mad L]

Probably a forlorn hope, Jim. There seems to be a new class of members here that don't care about tradition at all and go to great lengths to disparage it. I can't fathom why they'd join a forum dedicated to tradition. More and more, I tend to think of them as a form of troll.

Just like all those on the west coast that have taken over the Renaissance festivals and Pirate festivals.
The Renaissance (May Fare) I used to go to as a youth is now called "Fantast & Pleasure Faire" where you find men wearing pink tutus ogres, steampunks, and 'what the heck is thats'. And all the well crafted renaissance goods to purchase are far and few between.
And as I stated above, same with the Pirate era festivals.

There is one annual event, I will not say publicly which one, that chased off some steampunkers one year, told them their attire did not fit the venue.
The three or four steampunkers turned away, jumped on social media and called for all their friends to come join the next day (someone pointed their posting out to me)
Well, they showed the next day, maybe 6 or 8 of them. The real attendees of the event just tried to ignore them...the steampuckers took offence and once again jumped on social media and called for all their buddies to come out the next time and "help show those Snobs that they have Rights too!"

Another annual historic event in SW simply had to put out a rule: Not in a Registered Group then "No Costumes" *period*
(and, of course, all registered groups had to meet the event's venue)

 

[Coinneach]

Well, certainly if your goal is to achieve the various experiences and feelings of the mountain men and longhunters, this is the direction you have to go in order to avoid "cherry picking" aspects of their lives that seem attractive. And you didn't even mention parasitic infections and rotten teeth. Not that there's anything wrong in trying to emulate an idealized image or focus on a number of particular heroic cases, but we shouldn't forget that it's an idealized image and that those were heroic cases.

Hey, I've watched "The Mountain Men" and "Jeremiah Johnston" thousands of times so thats what it was like !

 

[Coinneach]

Probably a forlorn hope, Jim. There seems to be a new class of members here that don't care about tradition at all and go to great lengths to disparage it. I can't fathom why they'd join a forum dedicated to tradition. More and more, I tend to think of them as a form of troll.

Agreed, any time soon they'll be lauding the praises of plastic "Flintlocks" and Pink synthetic "authentic" Stocks.

 

[doubleset]

Hey, I've watched "The Mountain Men" and "Jeremiah Johnston" thousands of times so thats what it was like !

I'm expecting to see an episode on Robert Redford any week now on Into the Wild Frontier. The one on Leonardo De Caprio was pretty good, but I'm not entirely sure about it's historical accuracy, based on the movie.

 

[Ninering62]

I find that all these averse comments about archery are pretty funny.

Let's see, we started shooting animals with a gun for food around 600 years ago, right?

And we started shooting animals with a bow for food around 100,000 years ago, right?

I'd say that archery clearly has pride of place here.

Though your numbers are slightly off, your general point is not. Now, that being said, we need to keep a cpl things in mind here; 1) that this is a " traditional muzzleloading forum " and the owners & the old timers all obviously want to keep it exactly as is & one can either like it, or go somewhere else. I've had all that " this is not a democracy " thing laid out for me when I've challenged or questioned some things. 20 when you're in the company of grown men in a muzzleloading group that refer to even modern muzzleloaders & all CF's as " unmentionables " like its 1950 & talking about underwear. I LOL & SMH at all that nonsense. So, draggin archery into an open forum, I wouldn't hold my breath for that happening in here. Thats just my observation & 2c.

 

[TFoley]

Though your numbers are slightly off, your general point is not. Now, that being said, we need to keep a cpl things in mind here; 1) that this is a " traditional muzzleloading forum " and the owners & the old timers all obviously want to keep it exactly as is & one can either like it, or go somewhere else. I've had all that " this is not a democracy " thing laid out for me when I've challenged or questioned some things. 20 when you're in the company of grown men in a muzzleloading group that refer to even modern muzzleloaders & all CF's as " unmentionables " like its 1950 & talking about underwear. I LOL & SMH at all that nonsense. So, draggin archery into an open forum, I wouldn't hold my breath for that happening in here. Thats just my observation & 2c.

My comment did not imply that archery had prominence over the subject matter of this forum. Only that archery has been providing 'food on the table' for a lot longer, and should not be poo-hooed.

 

[Flintlock]

My comment did not imply that archery had prominence over the subject matter of this forum. Only that archery has been providing 'food on the table' for a lot longer, and should not be poo-hooed.

That's great and all but I'm sure someone by now has to have started a archery forum somewhere on the web. We start talking archery then it's .great uncle Doofis's .410 shotgun then old cars. Before you know it we don't have a traditional Muzzleloaders forum but just a place where crap is babbled.

 

[Ninering62]

My comment did not imply that archery had prominence over the subject matter of this forum. Only that archery has been providing 'food on the table' for a lot longer, and should not be poo-hooed.

Historical fact 100% dictates exactly that. I 100% agree with you.