Which "kit"?

[Herb]

Finnwolf- you got some really good advice here! I especially like Darkhorse and Birddog's comments. I built Track's Issac Haines parts 4 or 5 years ago, in B weight .40 caliber. Can't remember any problems. As for caliber, what do you want? A .50 cal B weight will weigh a half pound less than a C weight .54, both 38", and .8 pound less than a .40. Go for it! And if you come to a point of indecision on how to do something, these guys are the people to ask. I've stocked a few dozen centerfire rifles and a dozen or two doubles and shotguns and 25 ML rifles with 3 or 4 more in progress, having learned most of this myself as I go, so I recognize the worth of their advice.

 

[Darkhorse]

Birddog, I absolutely agree about the predrilled holes for the lock bolts. The reason I thought they were I had visited Bud Daviddson's Airbum website where he had started building a Isacc Haines from Dunlaps. On the site he stated the lock bolt holes were predrilled. I was a little concerned about that so I emailed and asked him how it worked out "He replied they were dead nuts on"
I still think they are best not predrilled.

I agree also with buying a good figured piece of wood to start with. Even without carving, the lines of a longrifle and good wood will make it look like a work of art. And you can't change your mind about the wood later.

My Isacc Haines is a C weight .54, and not only is it a shooter but off hand with heavy hunting loads the recoil is almost unnoticable. Off the bench when developing these heavy loads is another story but thats true of most all guns. Wrapping a sling around the barrel to control barrel jump solved the recoil problem off sandbags.

 

[Birddog6]

Well, I suppose you could order it predrilled, then try to align everything to the holes... Just never heard of doing it before the barrel was put in... Lots of dif. ways of doing dif things. This may limit you to exactly what lock & possibly sideplate the stock carver has anticipated you using..... When I order a stock, I prefer to order it with no inlets other than the RR chanel drilled & the barrel channel inlet. I want to do the tang, RR pipes, trigger, buttplate & etc. myself... But as I said, lots of dif ways of doing them & everyone has to find what THEY like the best & go on.. :results:

 

[Finnwolf]

I'm thinking the same things BD6. I figure that if I don't do any carving, a top notch stock will still look great. Maybe in the future, after I get some carving practice, I can go back and put some nice C scrolls on it. I would like to inlay a nice thumb piece and a hunter's star on the cheek.
I'm leaning toward the .54 for the 25% bigger ball but having never fired anything except a .50, I was a little worried about recoil. I don't hunt anything bigger than PA whitetails and I never feel recoil when hunting but I really enjoy an afternoon at the range and I don't want that to change.
BTW, from what I've seen of your work, you're getting pretty close to that perfect one. Thanks for the help.

 

[Finnwolf]

You're right Herb, I'm getting steered in the right direction, lot's of good advice from guys who know a thing or two. Still wrestling with the caliber decision. All I do is hunt whitetails and shoot at the range and I love both. I love to still hunt in the snow when the walking is quiet and I know I'd love that Haines in .50 with a B weight barrel for carrying. There might be times when the .54 ball could do the job better and save me a little tracking time. I've never pulled the hammer back on a .54 and I don't want to find out that shooting at the range isn't as much fun as it used to be. Maybe I'll get lucky and run into somebody at the range with a .54 Haines who'll let me squeeze one off. Not likey, just about everyone I run into has a T/C or a Lyman. I'll figure it all out sooner or later.
Thanks,
Finnwolf

 

I own 3 .54's, but have shot a few .50's and .45's, and I can't tell the difference when it comes to recoil. Unless you start pouring 100+ grains of powder down the barrel, a .54 is not any less pleasant to shoot than a .50. Especially in a long-barrelled Haines rifle. My experience is limited to shorter-barrelled Hawken-type rifles... and I can shoot my .54 Lyman GPR all day long with a 60 grain charge of either FFg or FFFg and never feel any discomfort in my shoulder.

 

[Birddog6]

The .54 cal under normal loads will not be a noticeable difference in recoil than in the .50 cal. I have shot allot of both of them and do most of my shooting off the bench & there is basically not a dif. I usually shoot 65 grains of FF for just general shooting & 75 grains of FF or FFF for deer hunting, depending on the rifle & barrel & etc..
Being a larger bore I supposed if you actually measured it the .54 would have more recoil, however, it is more of a shotgun push rather than a sharp recoil like a HP rifle caliber change and again I stress under Normal loads it will not be as noticeable. It is my favorite caliber in the larger bores. The Isaac Haines rifle in a .54 C is a really nice combo. Not too heavy & well balanced with the 38" .54 cal. barrel. :thumbsup:

Also, the bigger the ball, the better the blood trail & the more energy upon impact too. Usually with a .54 and one good shot you don't need a blood trail as you can easily follow a deer 20' from where ya shot him. ::

 

[Birddog6]

OK..... I have a complete top of the line Isaac Haines rifle parts kit in front of me right now..... It is from Dunlap Woodcrafts, sent here for me to build. It has all the parts to build the rifle except the patchbox & I orderd a blank to make that with. (Should be here Thursday)

None of the inlets are fully done, but they are all close.

The barrel will not go into the channel but will partially go in & is very close & I want it that way. Breech area & tang inlets are started but have to be finish inlet... they are roughed in but the barrel will have to go back another 1/4" and be squared off & tang inlet completed & etc. to get hthe flashpan vent allignment proper..

The lock inlet is close but not fully inletted & it will not go in.

The sideplate is inlet is close but not fully inletted, and the lockplate bolt holes "ARE" drilled thru the Sideplate side only, as to get you drilling in the proper place.......

The buttplate is rough inletted as they normally come.

The triggerguard inlet is close but not fully inletted.

The triggerrplate inlet is close but not fully inletted.

The Toeplate is not inlet.

The RR pipes & Entrypipe inlets are close but not fully inletted.

The underlug inlets are in the proper position.

The nosecap is left wide for a wooden flared nosecap, or you could put a flared brass one it, or work it down easily for a straight type nosecap.

The kit came with a Rice 38" B50 barrel with a 1-66" twist & the barrel has an emmaculate machined finish, inside & outside. (I have yet to see a better barrel finish on any barrel to date)

The lock in the box is a Chambers large Siler & it also appears to be perfect & smooth as glass in all of it's functions.

The stock is a highgrade red maple, very dense & with what appears to be very consistant stripes, I am speculating about 90% + from end to end, tho will know better when I do some sanding & etc. But it IS one fine piece of maple. Grain flow thru the wrist is perfect & it should make one fine rifle, well.... that is if I don't screw it up ! ha ha ha ! :thumbsup:

 

[Darkhorse]

Birddog6,
I'm glad you posted that. The stock sounds a lot like the TOW stock except, being lefthanded mine didn't come with the sideplate inlet, no underlug inlets and there was a knot about 5 inches from the end of the stock with subsequent warpage which had to be dealt with. Also TOW's fancy maple is probably about a grade 3. Good curl with some open areas, but also some figure so it still makes a good looking stock.
What worrys me most about the predrilled holes is this, moving the barrel back and the lock forward in order to get the touchhole position right. The good thing is the front should miss the web between the barrel and the RR hole. Although I still think I would measure before drilling all the way thru.
With the Rice barrel and the shorter breechplug it should really make everything line up pretty well.

I tried to call and talk to Wayne today but he was on the phone as I want to get an idea about delivery. Last time I called they didn't have a .40 "B" in stock, the guy I talked to indicated that while the stock was being carved they would get the barrel and it should only take a couple of weeks. I tried to call Rice barrel co. a couple of weeks ago and never got an answer. I also emailed and never got a reply. I'll try Wayne again tomorrow.
Do you know how long it took to get that .50 Rice or did they have it in stock?
Actually, I shouldn't be much worried. It will still be a couple of months before the new shop is finished. And like the Dark Filly says; "You are NOT starting work on another gun until we get moved IN!!!!"

 

[Birddog6]

Darkhorse: I talked to Wayne today & he does have some B40 Rice barrels coming in & he is expecting them at any time. Now he may well also have same barrels already in some kits, but I didn't ask him about that.

I don't know if the .50 cal Rice barrel is in stock there or not as this kit has been here for 2-3 months. When it arrived I had 2 other rifles ahead of it & I just set it aside & forgot about. A while ago when it hit me that I had a complete parts set here from Dunlaps & so I opened it & checked it out......

I think TOW may grade their stocks differently than Wayne. (Not sure) I have never seen a TOW stock as nice as this one, however they may very well have them. This stock in this kit appears to be a Grade 7 , as I have several Grade 7 stocks here from him & they appear to be about the same quality in grain structure & striping & etc.

 

[Finnwolf]

Thanks for the advice on the .54 Dood and BD. From your description sounds like I can have that extra big hole when I'm in the woods AND still have a pleasant afternoon on the bench. A .54 it will be.
I was starting to drool as I was reading your description on the "kit", Birddog6. Sounds like just the kind of wood I envisioned. This Rice barrel stuff is new to me though. Being from PA, I've been hearing about Getz barrels for a long time. Lot of people around here feel there are none better. Do you shoot any Rice barrels?
Thanks,
Finnwolf

 

[Birddog6]

The Rice barrel is fairly new on the market, and getting astounding reviews... Remarkable workmanship I will say is the only way to truly discribe it. Your Getz barrel is most likely so popular there because it is an older company & local. Fine barrel too I must say...

Also, ALL of the barrels made today by Colerain, Getz, Green. Mtn., Goodoien, etc. will shoot far more accurate than I can hold them.... :results:

 

[bub524]

Finnwolf,
You may want to look into the DVD set by Ron Ehlert on building the Kentucky long rifle. Available from Log Cabin Shop. Its worth the money. I've put together about 20 rifles from kits and from scratch in the last 25 or so years, and there are a lot of things I learned from these dvds. He goes thru assembling a Chambers kit. Worthwhile even for those of you who have been doing this for a while.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

The Rice barrel is fairly new on the market, and getting astounding reviews... Remarkable workmanship I will say is the only way to truly discribe it. Your Getz barrel is most likely so popular there because it is an older company & local. Fine barrel too I must say...

Also, ALL of the barrels made today by Colerain, Getz, Green. Mtn., Goodoien, etc. will shoot far more accurate than I can hold them.... :results:

From all I have heard about the Rice barrels, you can be assured of receiving a top notch breeching job, as he has made same a top priority.

Sad to say from my own experience with Getz breeched barrels, they are like Forest Gump's momma's box of chocolates, "you just never know what you are going to get." :shake:

 

[Herb]

Darkhorse- Rice barrels are really good, but delivery has slowed down. If you order from him, ask about it. I ordered two, a .40 and .50, on 8-31-04 and don't have them yet. Another option is Muzzleloader Builder's Supply. I talked with Susie today and she has Rice swamped barrels on hand.

 

[brushbuster]

Darkhorse- Rice barrels are really good, but delivery has slowed down. If you order from him, ask about it. I ordered two, a .40 and .50, on 8-31-04 and don't have them yet. Another option is Muzzleloader Builder's Supply. I talked with Susie today and she has Rice swamped barrels on hand.

i waited close to three months for my .50 cal barrel but it was well worth the wait .l.c is agreat guy and turns out a great product.i can tell you this much .over the summer he was having problems with his .50 cal machine and was not getting sa many barrels out of his reamers so production fell behind.and he will not send a barrel out unless it's right.if one gets past him that isn't,he will send you another barrel :thumbsup:

 

[Birddog6]

LC was also without power for almost a month too as the storms took out all the power lines in the area.... so that has set him back too.