Which Powder to use?

[sussexmuzllodr]

Please feel free to sent me all your dreaded Pyrodex. I will dispose of it for you.

 

[HJG]

You didn't say what rifle you are intending to shoot. That can make a difference too.

The gentleman is reasonably correct. Triple Seven is much harder to ignite than a real black powder such as GOEX. But it can be done. You would need a #11 Magnum cap and one of the nipple designed to direct a hot flash through the nipple to the main charge. These are the Hot Shot, Spitfire and Red Hot nipples. Be sure to get the nipple with the correct thread for your rifle.

I will be shooting a Traditions 50cal Kentucky.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The Traditions Kentucky (percussion) has a drum and nipple. The flash has to get into the drum and turn down the flash channel to make a turn again into the chambered breech. Of course the heat from the flash can flow through all these turns, but there is a distance and the heat does cool down as it flows. That is one of the reasons we slap the rifle at the breech to settle some of the powder deeper in the powder chamber and along the flash channel. The theory is the powder near the nipple seat starts burning and that heat from the burning powder sets off the powder in the chamber. So a hot percussion cap can set off both GOEX black powder and a higher temperature powder such as Triple Seven or Pyrodex.

Ultimately after all that theory, the recommendation is to use GOEX real black powder as the first choice. The second choice is to develop a procedure to bring more heat to the powder chamber to ignite the hard to ignite substitute powders. This can include special nipples, hotter percussion caps, mechanical settling of powder at the breech and special incantations that get the powder to ignite.

 

[HJG]

Think I will go with GOEX....Thank you for all your help.
I will get back with you soon..

 

[Carbon 6]

Regarding the idea of increasing the size of the nipple hole "a little" - that is probably okay but for me it would be hard to know when "a little" is too much,

Best to just walk away then.

 

[jambuster]

Sorry Sussex I already gave it away. Only had 1 pound left.

 

[Colterkid]

The Traditions Kentucky (percussion) has a drum and nipple. The flash has to get into the drum and turn down the flash channel to make a turn again into the chambered breech. Of course the heat from the flash can flow through all these turns, but there is a distance and the heat does cool down as it flows. That is one of the reasons we slap the rifle at the breech to settle some of the powder deeper in the powder chamber and along the flash channel. The theory is the powder near the nipple seat starts burning and that heat from the burning powder sets off the powder in the chamber. So a hot percussion cap can set off both GOEX black powder and a higher temperature powder such as Triple Seven or Pyrodex.

Ultimately after all that theory, the recommendation is to use GOEX real black powder as the first choice. The second choice is to develop a procedure to bring more heat to the powder chamber to ignite the hard to ignite substitute powders. This can include special nipples, hotter percussion caps, mechanical settling of powder at the breech and special incantations that get the powder to ignite.

Makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[Howard Pippin]

Regarding the idea of increasing the size of the nipple hole "a little" - that is probably okay but for me it would be hard to know when "a little" is too much, especially with my eye just a few inches away from the nipple. As far as how many shots between cleanings - there is no doubt that BP substitutes will allow more shots. When I was shooting rockchucks with my muzzleloader, I would have appreciated getting eight or ten shots before I had to swab out the bore - and if I got a hang fire, it really didn't bother me too much. But when I am going after big game, with all the time and money that it takes - and considering that if I am lucky enough to get a shooting opportunity, it may be the only one of the year, as long as it is available the ONLY propellant that I will use, and recommend is good, old-fashioned black powder.

When I said I increased the hole a tiny bit, I did so by research first. The original hole measured .028 which is a number 70 wire bit. First I tried a 69, and I couldn't determine much difference so I did go to a 68 which is a .031 diameter. I just held them with a small wrench and used my drill press. In case it proved disastrous, I had purchased two nipples and could have started over or not done it. I understand nipples wear so that's why I purchased stainless steel thinking they might wear a little better. I'm not a big-time shooter, I have no idea how many shots I have put through it, but so far nothing has changed. I cast my own balls too, but I'm not aware that I have shot 100 times. I never did try the original nipple or the replacement nipples before I drilled them out, and I'm sure they would've worked at least most of the time.
Squint

 

[hanshi]

I generally use 3F in everything but if 2F is all I have I use it and never blink.

 

[wb78963]

Substituting anything for real Black Gunpowder is like substituting North Carolina river bottom moonshine for single barrel 25 year old Scotch Whiskey.
That is my opinion and I stand by it.
Respectfully
Bunk

 

[Grenadier1758]

Although the North Carolina Mountain Moonshine ain't all that bad if that's all we got.

 

[wb78963]

Although the North Carolina Mountain Moonshine ain't all that bad if that's all we got.

good shot Grenadier 1758.! You sound like you speak from experience.
But I would prefer the Scotch.
Bunk

 

[Grenadier1758]

Had to learn something positive about North Carolina while I was at Fort Bragg.

For an inexpensive, but very good bourbon, I would prefer Elijah Craig. None of those frugal rascals I hang around with would bring an expensive Scotch Whiskey.

 

[Eterry]

Question, On a 50cal. Percussion Rifle, I would like to get some input on what type of powder to use. Goex or Triple Seven.... ~Thank you~

This one is easy...Goex FFFg.

 

[wb78963]

Before Zonie gets on me again FFg or FFFg in a .50 cal. Green River Rifle shooting equal amounts (60 grains) with PRB my feeling was the FFFg had a bit more recoil and seem to hit the steel 50 yard gong harder.
Since my shooting is more for fun 50 grains of GOEX FFg softer shooting and about as accurate enough at that50 yard target to suit me.
So it depends on what you are using the rifle for. Experiment, because we are re-inventing a 150+ year old wheel.
respectfully
Bunk

 

[nebhunt]

I have been reading the post on this subject of what powder to use. I have a T/C Hawken in 50 and for the 25 plus years have used pyrodex rs and tried one jug of real black powder when I could get it. Never had too much trouble with the pyrodex and cleaning it up. Always wanted to try the 777 but several years back heard all the bad things about the crud ring so just stuck with what I had. So what it the truth about the crud ring using 777. I want to give it a try but don't want to ruin a barrel either.

 

[wb78963]

If you have been using that rust in a bottle that burns it is likely you have already done damage to the bore so it makes no difference. This link will give you some needed information.
Personally I would rather shoot stainless steel balls and clean with battery acid that run that stuff through my barrels.
Say what you want that is my opinion and, like belly buttons, every one has one.
It is your firearm you can do what you want. I will stay with real Black Gunpowder.
https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=56362.0Respectfully
Bunk

 

[Grenadier1758]

@nebhunt, I am no fan of the substitute powders, but I have to admit that some shooters have little choice but to use them. You have been taking care of your rifle and have gotten acceptable results from shooting Pyrodex for 25 years.

Crud rings can happen while using just about any muzzle loading propellant. The process is how to address that build up before it becomes a problem. You need a liquid bore cleaner that you can lubricate your cleaning patch to clean that ring of crusty fouling and lubricant left in the barrel. I use rubbing alcohol on my patch to loosen the ring that I get from my lubricant and real black powder. You can use an over powder card the load the ball with wet patch to loosen up the crud ring or use the lubricant / cleaner on your between shots cleaning patch to loosen the ring and draw the crud out. Not so secret cleaners / lubricants are the aforementioned rubbing alcohol, the often mentioned mix of Murphy's Oil Soap, Rubbing Alcohol and Hydrogen Peroxide (MAP), Murphy's Oil Soap by itself or mixed with an equal part of water or dish soap in water. You need a cleaner that readily dissolves the fouling that is left in the barrel that combines with the lubricant to make the crusty ring at the breech.

The crusty ring shouldn't be a problem if you have a plan to address it.