Which powder

[tenngun]

7000 grains per pound divided by 70 grains per shot equals 100 shots. 50 grains per shot equals 140 shots.

A pound of anything always equal 7000 grains. It is important to load by volume not weight.
Black powder is about 25% more compact then pyrodex. A pound of black is about a pint, a pound of pyrodex about a pint and a half cup.
a 70 grain by volume of black powder measured for pyrodex will weigh about 55 grains in pyrodex.
Always load by volume not weight.

 

[Stykbow]

So what you’re telling me is that in this case there is no real difference between, say, 50 grains by volume and 50 grains by weight? I’m cool with that. I just wasn’t thinking of each powder charge in terms of weight.

 

[user 49399]

By volume, yes.

 

[Grenadier1758]

So what you’re telling me is that in this case there is no real difference between, say, 50 grains by volume and 50 grains by weight? I’m cool with that. I just wasn’t thinking of each powder charge in terms of weight.

The volume measures are calibrated to the density of black powder. When you measure 50 grains by volume of 2fg black powder, it will measure 50 grains on a weight scale. The 3fg will weigh a bit more than the volume setting, but only by a grain or two. And when developing a load for on target accuracy, always use the same measure and the tolerance for error between volume measures can be up to 5 grains. That same 50 grain volume measure will throw about 35 grains of Pyrodex.

 

[dave951]

I'm going to rain on the Volume Measure parade here.

Traditionally, yes, it was and still is measured by volume, BUT... for that to be an accurate method of using a certain amount of powder in a given space, the "grains" of powder must be uniform along with the measure being consistent and how the powder is dispensed being consistent. Problem is, powder grain size isn't terribly uniform especially in the cheaper grades of powder. Powder measures vary. How one guy dispenses will not be how the next guy dispenses. And to add the icing to the confusion cake, that 7000gr to 1lb is a WEIGHT measure NOT volume. Think I'm offbase? Get an accurate scale and your volume measure. Set your volume measure and pour a charge. Weight the charge. Put it back and pour another but this time, tap the volume measure a couple times and pour till it's just as full. I'd bet the farm the two are very different because of settling in the second method.

So if you want accuracy, you will be WEIGHING charges. You can switch to volume after you develop a methodology to be extremely consistent in how you throw your charge. If you're using cheapo powder, this gets critical fast if you want accuracy because in cheapo powder, the amount of "fines" goes up fast. Fines are powder grains that are smaller than the nominal size. Explanation- "fines" in 3f are probably 4f or smaller. Fines in 2f are probably 3f, 4f or smaller. That stuff still burns and contributes to the bang so it must be accounted for in making good ammo, hence weighing the charge. This is also a significant part of the explanation for velocity variation in cheap v expensive powder. When I'm assembling competition ammo, I have a measure set for each gun. For musket, I'm shooting 42g 3f Old E. I weigh the first charge, then use the powder measure to throw the next 9 for a total of 10. I weigh the next charge and throw the next 9 for another total of 10. So I'm weighing every 10th charge to check for consistency. I also have a set routine in how I swing the throw lever on the powder measure/dispenser because how that is operated will affect the weight of the dispensed powder. Accuracy is about variable control.

You can get by just fine for plinking by nothing but volume measurement, but when you get into the accuracy weeds in competition, that volume thing will go away quickly.

 

[dave951]

So what you’re telling me is that in this case there is no real difference between, say, 50 grains by volume and 50 grains by weight? I’m cool with that. I just wasn’t thinking of each powder charge in terms of weight.

Yes there is a difference. It depends on "f" and quality of the powder meaning the amount of "fines" present.

 

[tenngun]

Wow
I have never weighed a charge, 100 yard target… my best for sure, miscounted thought I had five shots

 

[tenngun]

I’m sorry, wrong target, that was my best, and miscounted

 

[dave951]

All righty then, 1861 Enfield Musketoon. 100yds. WEIGHED charges.

 

[Stykbow]

Yes there is a difference. It depends on "f" and quality of the powder meaning the amount of "fines" present.

Agreed. That’s why I questioned using weight as a measure of how many shots you could get out of 1lbs. of powder since we typically measure a charge by volume.

Tenngun that’s a fine group no matter how you “measure” it.

 

[Stykbow]

Another dandy group posted by dave951.

 

[tenngun]

Agreed. That’s why I questioned using weight as a measure of how many shots you could get out of 1lbs. of powder since we typically measure a charge by volume.

Tenngun that’s a fine group no matter how you “measure” it.

Well that’s v notch and thin silver blade, crappy sights, I don’t think tween my eyes and sights I could shrink that group by any tricks.
And 90% of my shooting is smoothbore now. Built in excuse for when I miss.

 

[dave951]

Another dandy group posted by dave951.

The real fun was the couple AR fan bois who were pewpewing around. The target was theirs and as they were packing to leave the range, I asked if we could put a couple rounds in it. I wish I had taken a pic of the head of that silhouette cuz there's 3 58cal holes about between the eyes, all shot offhand with a fuddy duddy old muzzleloader and yeah, the fan bois saw it as they slinked off the range.

 

[Brokenbear]

I'll not speak poorly of Holy Black but I will point out a few things before you start down the road of tuning a rife to shoot clover leaf groups
1. Pyrodex though I do have one rifle that does best with Pryodex is "yesterdays" technology ..it is in it's same basic configuration it was when introduced 45 years ago and still has a lot of the clean up/gun maintenance characteristics of holy black but is harder to ignite
2. Pyrodex and Tripple Seven are both sold by weight but are dispensed by matched volume to black powder volumes ..which means either one of the substitutes will load more loads than a can of black powder
3. Unless you are in a big metro area or a real concentration of muzzleloader shooters black powder is unobtainable short of buying in large quantities to cover hazmat and shipping costs
4. Tripple Seven ..a relatively new kid on the block ..but solves the short comings of Pyrodex very nicely
...it cleans up just like your modern fixed ammo firearms ..nice smoke ..higher velocity than black powder or Pyrodex and lights off easily and is more likely to be in your local gun shop than black powder

(I use T7/3F in pistols with home spun paper cartridges and home made percussion caps whose only primer compound is 3 dots from toy capgun caps)

So Tripple Seven can't be that hard to light off if a stink'n capgun cap can start the party

Bear

 

[Stykbow]

I’ve continued looking at real black powder, but as Brokenbear mentions it’s starting to look like it’s pretty expensive stuff. Best price I’ve found is still about $50 per pound once it’s all said and done.

 

[NorthFork]

I use Goex ffg in 50 or larger. Goex fffg in 45 or smaller. I fully support @Britsmoothy use of "fine" powder in any Cal/guage.

 

[dave951]

I’ve continued looking at real black powder, but as Brokenbear mentions it’s starting to look like it’s pretty expensive stuff. Best price I’ve found is still about $50 per pound once it’s all said and done.

REALLY?? Only if you order 1lb at the time. Get with a local NMLRA club and pitch in with them when they order. Price will drop to about $25/lb very quickly and further if you order more in standard grades.

 

[Stykbow]

REALLY?? Only if you order 1lb at the time. Get with a local NMLRA club and pitch in with them when they order. Price will drop to about $25/lb very quickly and further if you order more in standard grades.

Yeah, really, but like you said that’s for 1lbs. I’ve never even considered real black before, so pitching in with a club never even occurred to me.

 

[satwel]

Yes, 3F should work fine in your .50 caliber. That is what most people use. I have two .50 caliber flintlock rifles, one with a Green Mountain barrel, the other with a Colerain. The Colerain barrel shoots best with 3F. The Green Mountain rifle shoots best with 2F. Start with 3F and if you're not happy your groups, give 2F a try. The only way to know which granulation works best in your rifle is to experiment with both.

 

[deerstalkert]

good grief! had no idea Black powder was that much now. ! mine costs me $6.25/lb.