It’s a nipple with a 5x18 thread and a #11 size cone. Treso ampco (beryllium?).
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Whitworth rifle range report
- Thread starter Widows Son
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
I was able to get to the range this afternoon for further load development in my Whitworth.
I admit I am confused and a bit frustrated by the results. As you can tell from my earlier posts, at 50 metres I had some groups that showed promise. Today I fired the very same bullets, paper patching, powder charges, percussion caps, felt wad etc etc etc…at 100 metres. It didn’t go well.
My first 5 shots with 65 grains: 6/4/10/6/8. I numbered the order of shots on the target.
Next 70 grains. As at 50 meters, it was a worse string 4/4/7/3/5
Next 75 grains 3/5/0/6/6
And last 80 grains. 5/6/2/6/1. Notice the tumbled bullet (4th shot). The paper patch came off the bullet during loading. However I was rather disinterested by this point so just kept on firing the string.
As you can see there is nothing like a group anywhere. And as the powder charges got larger the ‘groups” got bigger.
I assure everyone that I am being so mindful of consistency in everything. The same degree of cleaning between shots, the same pressure on the loading rod, powder weighed exactly on a digital scale etc etc.
I used a 6 o’clock hold every single shot. (The big black circle balanced on the front sight post the same way everytime). My vision is good for a middle aged man. No blur or fuzzy images through the sights. I’m hoping that when I find suitable peep sights things will improve. However I believe the standard military sights on the rifle should deliver much better results than what I’m getting. The “primitive “ blade and notch sights on my prb longrifle give better results than this.
The problem is more than likely me. I’m very new to conical bullets in general and Victorian-era target rifles specifically.
I WILL sort this rifle out! For the time being I’m stumped.
I admit I am confused and a bit frustrated by the results. As you can tell from my earlier posts, at 50 metres I had some groups that showed promise. Today I fired the very same bullets, paper patching, powder charges, percussion caps, felt wad etc etc etc…at 100 metres. It didn’t go well.
My first 5 shots with 65 grains: 6/4/10/6/8. I numbered the order of shots on the target.
Next 70 grains. As at 50 meters, it was a worse string 4/4/7/3/5
Next 75 grains 3/5/0/6/6
And last 80 grains. 5/6/2/6/1. Notice the tumbled bullet (4th shot). The paper patch came off the bullet during loading. However I was rather disinterested by this point so just kept on firing the string.
As you can see there is nothing like a group anywhere. And as the powder charges got larger the ‘groups” got bigger.
I assure everyone that I am being so mindful of consistency in everything. The same degree of cleaning between shots, the same pressure on the loading rod, powder weighed exactly on a digital scale etc etc.
I used a 6 o’clock hold every single shot. (The big black circle balanced on the front sight post the same way everytime). My vision is good for a middle aged man. No blur or fuzzy images through the sights. I’m hoping that when I find suitable peep sights things will improve. However I believe the standard military sights on the rifle should deliver much better results than what I’m getting. The “primitive “ blade and notch sights on my prb longrifle give better results than this.
The problem is more than likely me. I’m very new to conical bullets in general and Victorian-era target rifles specifically.
I WILL sort this rifle out! For the time being I’m stumped.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2005
- Messages
- 7,087
- Reaction score
- 5,381
Please don't be disconcerted at your results - it takes time and effort that you seem to be happy enough to put in. What I find interesting is that we are both doing much the same things - I'm using 545gr Lyman pointy-nosed bullets over a double card wad - and 70gr of Swiss #2. I gently push the bullet with its two 'wads' down onto the load without using any extra pressure - you can feel it when it touches. This is my result at 100m from my P-H WW rifle serial #420.
Also of interest to me as we are both shooting to the left, in spite of using the same POA - black fuzzy thing on the top of the dotted post - AND having different eyeballs...
It is a start, but the real shooters here will be having great laffs at my efforts. It WILL get better though! Of that I'm sure.
On Sunday I'll be upping to load by 5gr increments to 80gr, which is what I used to shoot in my old Whitworth that was actually made some five or six years after this one - this is the target from a few years back when my eyes were younger - and at 200m.
Also of interest to me as we are both shooting to the left, in spite of using the same POA - black fuzzy thing on the top of the dotted post - AND having different eyeballs...
It is a start, but the real shooters here will be having great laffs at my efforts. It WILL get better though! Of that I'm sure.
On Sunday I'll be upping to load by 5gr increments to 80gr, which is what I used to shoot in my old Whitworth that was actually made some five or six years after this one - this is the target from a few years back when my eyes were younger - and at 200m.
Wow! Good grouping!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2005
- Messages
- 7,087
- Reaction score
- 5,381
Sir, there are folks on this forum who shoot groups like this at 500/600 yards all the live-long day.
I believe it is a function of your paper and your wads. As your powder charge increases, you are getting worse results.
I realize that you are in an area that getting shooting supplies is difficult and expensive.
Have you tired two wads? Fiber wad and wool wad combo? Do you have a craft store or art store nearby? OR can you order some different paper?
I cant remember if Mark and Peter shoot PP or GG? Those guys should be able to tell you where to get some good paper for patching in AU.
Fleener
I realize that you are in an area that getting shooting supplies is difficult and expensive.
Have you tired two wads? Fiber wad and wool wad combo? Do you have a craft store or art store nearby? OR can you order some different paper?
I cant remember if Mark and Peter shoot PP or GG? Those guys should be able to tell you where to get some good paper for patching in AU.
Fleener
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2018
- Messages
- 109
- Reaction score
- 108
Looking at your discarded papers it appears you have some blacking going on. This could mean one of two things. One the bore wasn't clean or two your getting some blow by around the wad and bullet. With what your getting accuracy I'd tend to lean toward blow by.
As fleener noted, try a different wad combo.
Kno-ie
As fleener noted, try a different wad combo.
Kno-ie
Thanks fleener, I’ll try exploring those options. As far as paper, I’m now using the recommended 9lb onion skin paper .002. At 50 meters it gave me the best results of other papers I’ve tried (tracing paper, thermal paper, baking parchment, lightweight note paper). Mark and Peter both recommended it, as well as many others on this forum.
Wads are likely the next area of experimentation. I will make careful notes. There are so many things to try.
I could also try cylindrical bullets, both grease-grove and patched. I know the original 19th century Whitworth documentation recommended best results with cylindrical ones, however there are modern Whitworth shooters using hexagonal ones with fine results. I paid heaps of cash for the KAL hexagonal mould and feel obligated to use it
I’m pretty much stuck with the Wano powder. But it’s not bad powder by any means and I should still be able to get decent results from it. There are whispered rumours of Swiss being available in South Australia but covid has pretty much ceased interstate travel and it is a hell of a long way to go. (A US comparison would be like travelling from NYC to Houston)
Thanks for your input and encouragement. I will make things come together eventually.
Last edited:
Hi mate, thanks for your consideration. I will definitely explore different wad material. Regarding cleaning the bore…I am under the belief that the purpose of wiping between shots is to keep a consistent bore condition rather than actually “clean” the bore. Do I misunderstand the concept?
Its all relative
At the moment I can’t do that at 50/60 yards!
@Widows Son, you are correct. The purpose of wiping between shots is to keep the bore conditions consistent from shot to shot. Care must be taken to prevent pushing fouling into the breech and blocking off the touch. You will likely need a wiping jag that is a few thousandths smaller in diameter than the cleaning jag. The wiing jag and patch should ride over the fouling in the barrel and buch up to pull the fouling out as the jag and patch is removed.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2018
- Messages
- 109
- Reaction score
- 108
Wiping between shots is a very good thing and you do have the concept correct. The one piece of patch pictured is heavy with soot. That in my experience is a indication of wad failure and allows for blow by. Not good for accuracy.
I'm going to have to admit I've never shot the hex bullet in my Whitworth but only the cylinder bullet. There fore I don't experience the same exact findings as you do, but many things stay the same.
Your getting there. Now the discovery of what works has begun.
Kno-ie
I'm going to have to admit I've never shot the hex bullet in my Whitworth but only the cylinder bullet. There fore I don't experience the same exact findings as you do, but many things stay the same.
Your getting there. Now the discovery of what works has begun.
Kno-ie
I am awful at bullet placement, haven't tried using a vise and a laser yet.
But 50 years ago or more when I was still trying to make a group let alone hit the bullseye, the instructor told me to turn the target over and shoot where I thought the bullseye was.
All I can say is wow, that worked.
But 50 years ago or more when I was still trying to make a group let alone hit the bullseye, the instructor told me to turn the target over and shoot where I thought the bullseye was.
All I can say is wow, that worked.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2005
- Messages
- 7,087
- Reaction score
- 5,381
That is the same system I use today with new shooters! As you say, it still works just fine!
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2019
- Messages
- 75
- Reaction score
- 86
It's a Lyman mould then swaged in another mould via a vise to put the hex lines in it to match the hex grooves in the barrel. A lot of work but shoots good for me. It came with the gun from Navy when I bought it.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2005
- Messages
- 7,087
- Reaction score
- 5,381
I've heard of them, but never actually seen one. Can you post pics, please?
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2019
- Messages
- 75
- Reaction score
- 86
I can try.
Bedding! Eliminate any gaps between barrel and stock anywhere. Make sure nipple bolster is not touching the lock plate.
@ Widows Son,
Do you have the peepsight now ?
Imho the key to get a uniform result is change always only one component.
Did you measure your bore ?
You wipe between the shots, it has to be only damp not wet,
Do you wipe before loading or after loading ?
Do you use a loading tube to load the powder ?
Have you used Magnum caps ?
I´m not a fan of Wano and If i had to use it 3f would be my choice, Swiss No2 or Synthesia give me much better results.
Do you have the peepsight now ?
Imho the key to get a uniform result is change always only one component.
Did you measure your bore ?
You wipe between the shots, it has to be only damp not wet,
Do you wipe before loading or after loading ?
Do you use a loading tube to load the powder ?
Have you used Magnum caps ?
I´m not a fan of Wano and If i had to use it 3f would be my choice, Swiss No2 or Synthesia give me much better results.
