who builds heavy bench guns?

[walruskid1]

after seeing one in the flesh, who builds heavy bench guns and whats the price range? whats an original worth in good shape? i got the itch.

 

[Stumpkiller]

who builds heavy bench guns?

The guys that shoot 'em, that's who. :rotf:

The barrel is the hard part. Start contacting barrel makers . . . and scare yourself to death when you get the news. :winking:

Here's a link to Chunk 101 from the NMLRA site.


And you also have to wear bib-overalls. It's the law. :nono:

Link to article on Alvin York chunk gun match - names & info.

 

[cliff mccann]

The Gun Works has lots of used slug guns for sale,mostly by top makers of the 1960's-1970's. Link

 

[Bob Riegl]

IMHO there is a vast difference between slug guns and Chunk guns. Most slug guns I have ever seen are so darned heavy, are generally underhammer, the barrels are monstrous---essentially this quite simply B.P. bench rest shooting. Chunk guns are a prone match shot on a "chunk" rest (log, etc.), at an "X" target, with a system I haven't figured out as of yet---if you do ever figure out the link to the NMLRA article---clue me in. I would imagine you could get a real good chunk gun made for about $1500---a slug gun on the other hand might cost you ~$4-5000---as a guestimate. Most of the guys that shoot this event are first class gunsmiths and master machinists. Merry Christmas To All

 

[walruskid1]

i clicked on stumpkillers link above and it worked o.k. still haven't figgered out the spotter system explained in the article.

 

[crossstick1948]

There are three types of guns mixed up on this thread. 1) Chunk guns are traditional rifle, fixed open sights, no weight limits shooting patched round ball. 2) Round ball bench guns are adjustable open and any metalic sight (peep sights), no weight limit unless it is a light bench gun (14 or less pounds), either flint or percussion can be an underhammer and can use a sealed ignition. 3) Slug guns shoots a paper patched bullet, usually a cross patch, has optical sights usually externally adjustable either Uniteral (sp) or Mitchel. Matches are shot 100 to 500 yards. You can purchase these specialised rifles used at Friendship or by building one yourself. Barrels are available from Jim Goodien or Charles Brown. Address are available in Muzzleblasts the NMLRA magazine. Don't overlook cross stick rifles and matches they are just a challenging as the other rest matches. These rest matches are more fun than off hand matches.
Pete

 

Walruskid1,
Glad to hear someone else has got the bug! I got it about 12 years ago and haven't gotten over it yet. I have several "chunk" guns for sale as we speak. All but one are percussion and range in weight from +/- 14 pounds to over 35 pounds. several are half stocks and some are full stocks ranging in price from $750.00 to $5000.00 for the Cecil Brookes guns. You mention "heavy bench" and there is a big difference between chunk, bench and slug. Mine are definitely chunk guns. If you have an interest I can send out pics and assure you that there is something here to begin the game with.
Mark

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings WalrusKid,

Mnay of the bench guns are built by the men who shoot them. There are not as many bench gun makers today as back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's so that makes purchase of one somewhat more difficult.

Moving on from that, finding a new good bench barrel maker is your first objective. Three or four years back, a good shooting friend, purchased a Goodien bench barrel with false muzzle for close to $400.00. That false muzzle is a must for serious bench shooting.

Kenneth Bresien is no longer in the business, having sold all of his equipment a gentleman who is a top flight bench shooter and is producing a few barrels a year. Perhaps, some of the forum members know of other barrel makers who produce the heavy bench barrels.

Next is to decide if you want to shoot PRB or elongated slug. The rifling style is completely different for each projectile. PRB's are IMO much easy to shoot. Making an accurate slug is a real PITA.

Do you want a round barrel or an octagon barrel? Octagon barrels are easier to mount sights.

An action is the next step. The old H&A underhammer actions if tuned make a good basic action. Yes, there are better actions, maybe, but the cost is much greater. If you have some craft skills, MUZZLELOADER BUILDERS SUPPLY has a nice underhammer action kit for $60.00. I have seen a number of these actions make up into some very nice rifles.

Then there is another alterative. A heavy barrel flintlock bench rifle. A flint bench rifle gives away nothing in accuracy when competing against any other type of action. It also has the advantage of be able to compete in both the flint and percussion bench rifle matches.

And then there is the question of weight. My Bresien bench rifle weighs 51 pounds, and is not that much fun to shoot any more. A number of fellow shooters are quite happy with 30-35 pound rifles and win with them. In addition, their endurance to handle the lighter rifle is not pushed to the max. With my rifle, I have to lift and carry 100 pounds for each shot. Fire 30 shots per day, and that is a total of 3000 pounds that is handled and carried. At the end of a day I am considerably wore down from a day of shooting a 51 pound rifle. I am thinking about having the barrel planned down to octagon to unifomly reduce the weight.

Bench rifles are a lot of fun, and I know you will enjoy the accuracy of a good one.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

 

[Runner]

The scoring is easy once you get the idea. At the match I shoot each spring, you take a board and cut six x's on it with a razor knife. You have your partner set the target up and you shoot your three practice shots at what ever type of paper target you prefer. Once you have an idea of where you are hitting from the three practice shots, your partner prepares your board for your first shot. He puts your paper target on the board so that the first x is under the area where your practice shots hit. You don't change anything. Your job is to shoot the same way each time so that all of the balls go to the same hole. Your partner will put the paper target with that group on it over the x's on your board one at a time until you have fired your six shots for the match. If you hit the same place each time, several of them will be cutting the x or better. Then they slug the holes and measure how close to the center of the x the shot hit. The one I took second place with last spring at the meat shoot was about 1/100th off perfect. The one that won would have been hard to drill that perfectly by eye. You are shooting at a target, but the impacts that count are on the board behind the target. Your job is simply to put them all thru one hole. It doesn't matter if it is 6 inches away from point of aim. Your partner will put your target where it goes so that your ball should hit the x cut in the board. The rest is up to your shooting. For this kind of shooting you need slugs the size you are shooting to put in the holes with a center point on them. The judge then measures from the center point of the slug to the center point of the x. On close shots where the x is hit, they slug the hole and cut the x back on the slug with a razor and a straight edge. Then they measure from the x to the center point. The match I shoot each year is top shot wins and gets first choice. It goes on from there until all the prizes are gone. Picnic table, stacked two by four chunk. Sitting, 30 yards. Bring your own board and slugs. Shaders and irises used. Not nearly as easy as it sounds!

 

[faw3]

Mr Hinnant good to see you back, the teflon patch really made the 48" H+A put 1 ball on top of the other, I was going to suggest he go back to the pic of you with your bench rifle ( I think your stock weighs more than my H+A) I hate to just jump in with this do you know the Max load for this Ithaca Hawken 50 I just got. Thanks for leting me jump in everyone. Fred

 

[fho]

John L. Hinnant:

The person that bought the barrel making equipment from Kenneth Bresien Is Charle Brown,Mantua, Ohio.

Olie

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings FW,

Well......Fred, I dunno. I mean there you went and got a really desireable Ithaca Hawkens when you knew I was scouting about for one, and I bet you got a good deal for it. Probably told the owner you were doing him a favor and would not even charge him for carrying that cluuter off.

Next thing you know, you will probably show up at Brady, set up to shoot next to me, so you flaunt that rifle in my face.

OH, what the heck. Guess I can help you one more time, but you are starting to make a habit out of this free advice. What is worse, you are taking it and using it.

Well this is what I use. I recommend you use #@^%&$* grains of *^&$%@#! of ^&%*$#(@ brand powder. There that should fix you up. That load is guaranteed to produce unbeatable groups at all ranges.

Shoot a mile and double fudge durn, my keyboard seems to be acting up. I will have to get back to you on this.

Best regards and good shooting (with my secret load),

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying you load,

 

[Blackfoot]

Ok guys, with all of this talk about "chunk Guns" and the like ....I need a visual so lets see some pictures of these rifles. :thumbsup:

 

[davy]

Well here is John with his lightweight Texas Squirrel rifle once again! :haha:

That $%#^@&% secret powder load John suggests really works ... I am still looking for lock parts that went south(and east, west, and some north too!) :hmm: Accurate too! don havfta worry about a group as the first shot takes out about 8 inches of the center of the target .. so no fuss with more shots! :rotf:

Davy

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings FW,

GOTCHA.

Just could not resist the temptation to have a bit fun with your post FW. Hope you are not too put off. Since the problem with my keyboard seems to have cleared up, let us move to that subject of a max load by defining max load into two BASIC catagories.

1. MAX LOAD as pertaining to safety. This will vary from rifle to rifle while depending on the powder grade used. There are other factors too numerous to document here, but consider these two.

The breech plug-The quality of the installation and inherent safety of breech plug fit can vary from rifle to rifle, even from the same manufacturer. What might be a safe load in one rifle could blow the breech plug out of another one. In most cases, the typical sporting rifle breech threads are usually 5/8-3/4 inch long, but thread engagement will be at least 1/8 inch less than that. Bench rifles on the other hand will have breech theads 7/8's or longer in order to handle the heavy powder charges common to that class of rifle. My own 58 caliber bench rifle uses a normal charge of 185 grains of Goex 2FF powder. DO NOT TRY THIS LOAD IN YOUR HUNTING RIFLE!

The only sure fire way to know the limits of an individual rifle is to load it up and up until it blows up. Then you know, or maybe your family surviviors know.

The same safety concerns can be said about dovetails for sights and under lugs.

There are many other safety factors to consider when considering a maximum powder charge, and I am sure other forum members can post insights on those variables.

2. MAX LOADS FOR ACCURACY- In my experience with 50 caliber rifles, 80-90 grains of Goex 2FF maxs out for accuracy in barrels with less than 1-70 inch rifling twist. Twist rates of 1-70 or greater usually perform better with 10-20 grains more.

My chronograph testing over the years of 1-66 rifling, 50 caliber rifles with 32-36 inch long barrels show that after 85-90 grains of Goex 2FF, the increase in velocity gain is significantly less with each 5.0 grain increase of powder. Powder charges of 100 grains or more in 50 caliber do not burn efficiently enough to give a worthwhile gain in velocity.

OF COURSE THERE IS ALWAYS THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE, and I am always surprised to hear about so many exceptions.

Hope this will help you out FW and make up for the GOTCHA.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

P.S. Go back and re-read my post on accurate barrels.

JLH

If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

 

[faw3]

Geee and after all those nasty things I said about you on Hawken Loads a second ago I saw these 2, Gotcha. I just thought if anyone knew what the factory top load was it would be you, Ive gone back to the Brownning site ande what you said ect, it just came up here on classfieds for 400 and I guess I was first( he did e me that he let it go to cheap, he now had offers of 600, but he stuck to the org 400, I wanted a Ub Santa Fe but think I will be happy with this one. Be at Brady?? Count on it.Out shoot you ?? thats cute. But I will be on my feet I hope, going in for operation # "22"next month its a cure or kill, Im sick of this 9 yrs is enough.(and Id like for you to try that 48" H+A, Ive never had a rifle shoot this good shot after shot and it isnt my doing. (I need to show up in March right? Youll be home by the Fire...see you next year Merry Christmas and happy New Year John,davy, everyone. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[faw3]

the slug or maybe bench rifle that really got me was in M Blast 2001 4 part story about slug or bench rifle shooting, this guy a top shooter had both flint and perc on,the same rifle. It gets into loads how to make the parts you need ,and how to build them, along with makeing the 2 part slug, by Lester Cox, started about Aug thru Nov, nice unhammer story also in Oct issue. Hope this helps out its why I gave up even thinking about trying (except maybe ball rifle) Fred :hatsoff:

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Blackfoot,

Chunk guns simply long barrelled, heavy barrel regular ML rifles. There in no maximum weight limit.

Barrels are usually at least 40" long , 42" - 48"
long barrels are common. Barrels measuring 1-1/8 to 1-1/4 inch across the flats are favored. Rifle style or design is usually traditional caplock or flintlock or even underhammer. Both half-stock and full stock design are used.

Favorite calibers are 40 and 45 since the range is only 50 or 60 yards, and recoil is almost nil in a heavy rifle

The type of metellic sights may vary according to to local rules.

Davy posted a photo of my unlimited class bench rifle ( I am the handsome devil in the red shirt).
There is also a NMLRA "squirrel gun"bench rest rifle. Weight is restricted to 14 pounds and a max bore size of 40 caliber. The range, I believe is only 50 yards.

Any type of rifle design and action, encluding, I think, in-lines. PRB ONLY is allowed for this event and the chunk gun matches.

Some shooters are so good, they just use their regular offhand or hunting rifle, and they win on a regular basis.

Hope this information helps until somebody can post some more photos.

Besr regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

 

[walruskid1]

john, thank you and everybody else for the input. i will probably install a fixed rear sight on my underhammer target and try it in a chunk match somewhere. the peep aperature unscrews easy enough. fred, i wish you were closer. i'd love to see that 48" underhammer. when cash flow improves i think theres another target rifle in my future.

 

[BLAHMAN]

In the near future I plan on having a round ball bench gun. Ollie gave me the basics....I just gotta finish it.

Ollie made the action, it's an underhammer, and its a 50 caliber...is that right Ollie? It needs sights and I think I got a handle on that.....I think I'll start putzing around with that after the first of the year.