Who else has "given up" trekking/re-enacting. Why?

[TexasMLer]

Claude, it seems I might have opened a can of worms by using the term PC Nazis and it wasn't intended to be thataway. We used the term years ago and I believe the phrase may have been popularized by the "Soup Nazi" on Seinfeld . I'm not at all agin the "thread counters". They are the ones who have done a lot of research and take pride in what they do. I would just warn the uninitiated that from time to time they will cross paths with some arrogant so and so who will make their lives miserable if they let them. I've seen this kind even in the "farb" camps. If I have offended any who are Period Correct and work hard at their persona I am extremely sorry. I have nothing but respect for someone who invests a large portion of their time to put together an authentic character and to educate dill holes like me.
:sorry:

Actually, Ranger, it was I who stirred this whole pot from the very beginning by opening this thread and to each and everyone of you: I'm sorry I opened my BIG mouth.

Maybe we should just trash this thread?

 

[BrownBear]

Yup. A juried event is an important contirubtion to history, and I have the deepest respect for the folks who put in all the work.

But trying to make yourself look good by criticizing someone else at a non-juried event is a kangaroo court led by a clown judge. I grew up in a neighborhood where everyone was polite, and anyone who wasn't found out why. Keeping unsolicited advice and criticism to yourself at a non-juried event is an important form of politeness.

 

[riverrat43]

Hey! No apologies needed for me! I've actually gained a great deal from this thread.

Be careful not only what you type, but how it may be taken. Nonverbal communication cannot happen over the web.(Except for emoticons)

I've also learned that this isn't a game to some..it's a very serious endeavor and perhaps pilgrims ( me) need to step back and look at this from their perspective before making broad generalizations. ( not bad advice for life in the real world either)

I've learned that "rules" may be the operative word in re-enacting. Find out what the rules are and if you can't abide them, don't join in.
That's how I'm gonna approach this anyway.

I've also seen that we can vehemently disagree, and still make valid, thought provoking comments without flaming or being derisive. When that takes place, so does learning.
Learning is why I'm here.

So again, no one need apologize to me and I really did enjoy and learn from every viewpoint on here.

 

TexasMLer

You should not feel bad stating your feelings and asking the questions you did. This has been an excellent thread as well as insightful. Speaking for myself, I have been to a few living history museums and I find them extremely interesting, mostly because of the people portraying their specific time of history. I have never been to a judged or critqued rendezvous. I would love to see one but I would go as a day visitor because I certainly would not measure up to the standards they have set forth for themselves. But could you imagine seeing a multitude of re-enactors and camps that were as close as anyone could be in historical accuracy. I think it would be pretty awesome.

My wife and I got to act as tour guides, as do most of the folks do at the teaching rendezvous here in Winona, MN. We got a lot af satisfaction from doing that. We get to meet a lot of teachers and I believe a couple thousand students in the 4 days their schools are invited. Our job is to take them to the demonstrators for a 30 minute program. We can sit in on it as observers or head back to our camp until they need an escort to their next demonstration.

The demonstrators have their act together (as does everbody else) and they are very authentic in their appearance and well versed in their subject. I admire them. We are not accurate yet and may never be, but we are part of the entire picture and we have a great time for a week. If you look at our camp, and us, from about 150 feet away, we fit in pretty good though! I think at a less strict rendezvous we are accepted because we try to fit in and are interested. I think it is pretty cool when experienced and good looking rendezvousers, and the Booshway, spend time in our camp with us, having a taste or a bite and plenty of laughs.

I think the neatest thing about all of it is being able to portray someone I am not in my real life. I am not a showman but it makes you feel like you are. It's just plain fun!

When the public stops to chat with us, we invite them to sit around the fire and taste what we have going in the pot. They seem to love it. And when they ask us someting we don't know, we tell them that we don't know. But usually within ear shot is another camp that has someone to answer their questions. We encourage them to visit them or ask those folks to come over and answer their question for them.

I simply have no qualms in explaining to them that we are doing the mid 1830s because it gives us a greater latitude in our equipment and that my firearm (percussion) may be just a tad ahead of its time for my era. They seem to appreciate the fact that we are honest with them and certainly I do too.

But I have to say, there was a mess up last year and a school showed up that was supposed to be there an another day and one of the teachers was quite irrate with the fact that she ws not in the books and we were all running around trying to find a demonstrator that was free or to double them up with another class/school. She chewed my butt up and down because there was not enough room for her class to enter a tipi after they listened to the talk outside. I sucked it up and said it looks like I may be able to get you into another talk that your students will find very interesting. But on the way to the Clan Tartan the bull-whip demonstrator appeared and they got to see his demonstration all for themselves. About an hour later that same teacher came up to me and thanked for trying so hard to get her classes worked in. Made it worth it.

I have heard the term "stitch counter" used in both the negative and the positive. One couple we met at the Chatfield, MN rendezvous called themselves stitch counters. I was invited into their camp because I had some questions that were right up their ally. The couple not only gave me the answers I was looking but also some referrence material to check out on the internet. I spent well over an hour with them listening and having them proudly show me their accoutrements and campware.

I don't care what hobby you are involved in, there are good and bad in all of them. Ignore the bad as everybody else probably already does and embrace the good. And as somebody mentioned earlier, you'll know the good ones because they will be pointed out to you, and they won't begin their conversation with, "I know it all, I am perfect." No one on earth can make that claim as far as I know! :sleep: :yakyak: :sleep: :yakyak: This got lengthy!!!!

 

[TexiKan]

No problem. I do understand why the term has come to be. There are those who just can't mind their own business and think they know everything. I run into these people in every facet of life, not just reenacting.

The only people allowed to count my threads are the one's putting on a juried event and that's only because I accept the rules going in. Everyone else should mind their own business, unless I ask for their opinion. If I ask, then I have to accept whatever criticism or praise I might receive. Now, that doesn't mean a friend can't offer a little unsolicited "constructive criticism". We're all still learning and I do want to know if I'm doing it wrong. I guess it boils down to who's doing the criticizing and how they're doing it. :winking:

Excellent points, Claude, and I most heartily agree! And the best part, Wil, is that I never perceived most of those folks you listed, who write or do seminars, as members of the "thread counters." Also, I have never heard anyone refer to most of them as such. None of their articles seem to exhibit the "attitude" that tends to insult and offend. I have not had the privilege to meet them, but I would sincerely doubt if one of them would come up to me or anyone else, unsolicited, and start in on what is right and wrong. They have earned universal respect without arrogance. THAT is admirable, and I believe most folks will take to heart their advice and recommendations.

One thing for sure.....a high and mighty attitude won't make me give up the hobby. I've been in it far too long!

TexiKan

---------------

If you continue to do what you've always done, you will always get what you've always got.

 

[Tumblernotch]

:RO: Thanks Claude. I shore didn't want to offend anybody. I know the difference between a true PC reenactor and one of those "other" guys, and again I want to apologize if I did offend the former. It takes a lot of time, money and dedication to put together a correct impression. Most of my reenacting experience was in CW and I'm in a poor shape right now as far as my Longhunter gear, but I hope to soon change that. I also didn't mean to get everybody cranked up about this. I did want to encourage any who were thinking of starting into this lifestyle (better than "hobby")to overlook the very small number of doofuses who think they know it all. None of us know everything about this stuff. That's one thing that makes it so fun. The learning never ends! Like you said, constructive criticism never hurts. Now, will somebody help me remove a size 13 center-seam from my big fat mouth?

 

KanawhaRanger,.... Don't fret none, jest promise us you won't say "@#$%^&**^%", or "^%$#@&^*&*", and "$%#^#@&#$", ever agin!! :crackup: :crackup: :applause: ::

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Tumblernotch]

Now is that @#$%^&**^% spelled with two @@'s or one @?
:huh: :crackup: :crackup:

 

Now is that @#$%^&**^% spelled with two @@'s or one @?
:huh: :crackup: :crackup:

KanawhaRanger,.... :hmm: depends on "what part" of tha country yore from, the double @@'s will give it a southern "draaaaawl"!! :crackup:

YMHS
rollingb

Everclear,.... it ain't jest fer breakfast anymore.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Hey Tex! Sorry I missed your reply and skipped on down. Don't feel bad about opening this thread. I believe we all see the situation in a new light now. I've learned a heap. We all have to walk in the other guy's moccasins or brogans or whatever he's wearing for a little while. I realized just a little bit ago that I have been guilty of some of the things I've been griping about. No, this thread of discussion has helped me a lot. And from some of the other posts I've read, I believe we can all learn from it. I've enjoyed it, except for me being a peckerhead. Let's all just hang in there and do our best and not lose sight of the reasons we do what we do.
:thumbsup:

 

[Huntinfool]

So then I can expect you to show up in hand sewn clothes at our next KR shoot! :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

Oh well at least you gots a Traditional gun or 2! :crackup: :blah: :crackup: :blah:

OBTW KR we are planning on having a heat and beat over to Bob's tomorrow there will be some good eats there. We need your blacksmithing skills hope you can make it!

Chuck Goodall
TMA Prez
Kanawha Ranger Scribe :redthumb:

 

[Tumblernotch]

I'm giving serious thought to going to WallyWorld and getting me some material soon. I've got one of those big old industrial sized skeins of tan thread and a hankerin'. Do you have any double caped frock patterns and britches patterns? By gum I might just try it. I used what little clothing money I had to buy me a spotting scope. I didn't have enough for the coat to start with, but it was enough to buy the scope on sale. So don't be surprised if one day you see me at the range dressed like a caveman!
I'd like to make it, but I'm taking Hannah to Marshall tomorrow for some kind of clarinet master class and concert, and me and the wife will take the tour of Huntington. She's not been in downtown and it's been a while for me. I think I will look around for a pawnshop that might have some cheap muzzleloaders. Ain't I a great husband and dad for making such a sacrifice? :cry: I'd rather be shooting. You guys eat some extra deer meat and duck or whatever you show up with for me and have a good time and don't burn yeselves!

 

[Huntinfool]

There's an article on how to make a shirt from a pattern off you own clothes on Buckskinner I haven't read it yet I been busy what with all the TMA coming out and such!

We are getting off topic we need to start a thread about this over in the PC clothing saction!

Chuck
TMA Prez

 

[Greg Walden]

Maybe I'm coming into the question of historical accuracy from a different point of view. I reenacted Civil War (or, War between the States down hyar) for 20 years, starting as a "howling farb" and progressing to a stitch counting, hardcore authentic campaigner. I did the hardcore campaign deal because most of us in the unit wanted to, and we tended to go to events that held that standard. I did quit; I quit because the modern Yankee Army saw fit to station me in Germany for six years, and when I got back I was too old and fat and lived too far away from my pards to take it up again.

But I'm kinder puzzled about the comments on historical accuracy at a pre-1840s event. Granted, I've never participated in a rendezvous though I've seen a couple. It would seem to me to very difficult to come up with really detailed historical documentation for that period, for anyone to be able to say "that's wrong" or "only this is right." I'm not talking about having a percussion gun in the 1770s or wearing Wal-Mart moccasins or obvious anachronisms like that, but does detailed documentation really exist for those early periods? I'm comparing it to what we had in the WBTS reenacting / living history - for the unit we portrayed, we were really lucky that there still exist in museums or private collections five jackets/coats, one kepi, one canteen, one rifle-musket, and several flags documented to have been carried by the unit. Plus a host of original clothing and equipment issue documents. So we could reasonably say what was correct and what was not for an accurate portrayal of that unit.

Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way, but unless the really detailed documentation exists, I don't see how the "stitch counters" (no insult intended; I was one!) at a 'vous could say something was wrong other than a real anachronism like I gave above. I'm interested now in portraying the 1770s in Kentucky, and I don't know of any existing original frocks, leggings, mocs, etc that one can point to and say "this is right and anything else is wrong."

Or is the detailed documentation out there for the early periods? :m2c:

Regards,
Greg

 

[Huntinfool]

I know exactly what you mean Greg I don't think they all dressed just alike in the sense of what a lot of people are saying if it wasn't commonly used then you shouldn't do it or use it!

I prefer to think that they weren't cookie cutter types but rather that they were rugged individulist. Self suffcient and adaptable. Some don't take into consideration an item unless it was commonly used by a lot of people!

But as far as I'm concerned they can play there way and I'll play my way! Or else I could be like Eric Cartman and say #$@%^ you guys I'm going home. :crackup: :crackup:

Chuck
TMS Pres.

 

[wil]

Texikan,
Thats whats so great about those folks I named. They are great folks and extremly nice people. I think that what you'll find is that most of the self proclaimed threadcounters have forgot to have fun. They have put being PC above having a good time and relaxing. And thats to bad!! I'm lucky that the bunch that I run with trys to be as PC as possible and still have fun. I don't know anyone in this hobby whether they are hardcore or a pilgrim, that didn't start out to have fun frist. So remeber that just because your trying to be PC, doesn't mean that you have to stop having fun.
Wil

When it stops being fun, its time to get out.

 

I'm trying to get into the whole reenactment thing and some of this is a bit sad. But I must say that the majority are very nice people. I met some people up in Michigan a couple of weeks ago, including Stumbling Buffalo, and they were incredibly nice and friendly! I felt very welcome and was actually a bit depressed having to leave.

I think it is important to point out what is and is not pc, but it should be done with tact and class. Most I have met do it nicely. There are always negative people; it is pretty much unnavoidable. However, we should not let them ruin it for us.


I was a member of SASS and am debating whether to renew. Even though there are a lot of nice folks there, it has turned into a race game above all; the spirit is gone from what I have seen. I used to like some of the renfairs too, but it turned into a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fest, with people wearing cat eye contact lenses, fangs, fairy wings, elf ears, and even some with leather barbarian armor and bat wings. I am not kidding! So much for "Renaissance"! What I am trying to say is that it is VERY important to remain period correct, and to preserve the meaning of the pastime. BUt we also have to be tactful and understanding.

Anyway, I guess to each his own. When you encounter a blowhard or a stuck up person, it's a good idea to find others who will be cordial, and not give up. Anyway, good shooting to you. I am anxious to be able to get into this.

 

[The Kansan]

It has taken me forever to read all the posts in this thread, but it seem to have been (mostly) worth it. Lotta' different opinions with an awful lot of thought going into almost every post.

Maybe (with Claude's forgiveness) I can put it all in perspective with the following:

This just in from Chicken Little:
Why did the chicken cross the road?

VICE PRESIDENT GORE
I fight for the chickens and I am fighting for the chickens right now. I will not give up on the chickens crossing the road! I will fight for the chickens and I will not disappoint them.

GOVERNOR GEORGE W. BUSH
I don't believe we need to get the chickens across the road. I say give the road to the chickens and let them decide. The
government needs to let go of strangling the chickens so they can get across the road.

SENATOR LIEBERMAN
I believe that every chicken has the right to worship their God in their own way. Crossing the road is a spiritual journey and no chicken should be denied the right to cross the road in their own way.

SECRETARY CHENEY
Chickens are big-time because they have wings. They could fly if they wanted to. Chickens don't want to cross the road. They don't need help crossing the road. In fact, I'm not interested in crossing the road myself.

RALPH NADER
Chickens are misled into believing their is a road by the evil tiremakers. Chickens aren't ignorant, but our society pays tiremakers to create the need for these roads and then lures chickens into believing there is an advantage to crossing them. Down with the roads, up with chickens.

PAT BUCHANAN
To steal a job from a decent, hardworking American.

JERRY FALWELL
Because the chicken was gay! Isn't it obvious? Can't you people see the plain truth in front of your face? The chicken was going to the "other side." That's what "they" call it-the "other side." Yes, my friends, that chicken is gay. And, if you eat that chicken, you will become gay too. I say we boycott all chickens until we sort out this abomination that the liberal media whitewashes with
seemingly harmless phrases like "the other side." That chicken should not be free to cross the road. It's as plain and simple as that.

DR. SEUSS
Did the chicken cross the road? Did he cross it with a toad? Yes! The chicken crossed the road, but why it crossed, I've not been told!

ERNEST HEMINGWAY
To die. In the rain.

MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.
I envision a world where all chickens will be free to cross without having their motives called into question.

GRANDPA
In my day, we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road. Someone told us that the chicken crossed the road, and that was good enough for us.

ARISTOTLE
It is the nature of chickens to cross the road.

KARL MARX
It was a historical inevitability.

SADDAM HUSSEIN
This was an unprovoked act of rebellion and we were quite justified in dropping 50 tons of nerve gas on it.

RONALD REAGAN
What chicken?

CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK
To boldly go where no chicken has gone before.

FOX MULDER
You saw it cross the road with your own eyes. How many more chickens have to cross before you believe it?

FREUD
The fact that you are at all concerned that the chicken crossed the road reveals your underlying sexual insecurity.

BILL GATES
I have just released eChicken 2000, which will not only cross roads, but will lay eggs, file your important documents, and balance your checkbook -and Internet Explorer is an inextricable part of eChicken.

EINSTEIN
Did the chicken really cross the road or did the road move beneath the chicken?

BILL CLINTON
I did not cross the road with THAT chicken. What do you mean by "chicken"? Could you define "chicken" please?

GEORGE BUSH
I don't think I should have to answer that question.

LOUIS FARRAKHAN
The road, you will see, represents the black man. The chicken crossed the "black man" in order to trample him and keep him down.

THE BIBLE
And God came down from the heavens, and He said unto the chicken, "Thou shalt cross the road." And the chicken crossed the road, and there was much rejoicing.

BUCKSKINNER
To learn how to brain tan.

INLINER
To escape from the period correct/traditionalists!


COLONEL SANDERS
I missed one?


I'm a Buckskinner, a Living Historian/Historical presenter, experimental archeologist, a part time writer and full-time semi-professional smart@ass. And for the life of me I can't think of a single thing to say that hasn't been said 16 times in 16 different ways already.

Claude, thank you for this forum - You are a great American!


...The Kansan...