who hunts birds over dogs

[hawk]

Just wondering if any of you fellas hunt birds over dogs with blackpowder ??

I have a new english springer pup and am going to try and hunt over her with my fowler .

she maybe to young to hunt this year but I will try and teach her some manners and hopfully she will teach me how to hunt with her...

 

[Vaino]

What birds do you intend to hunt? I've hunted pheasants over springers and a strong pair of legs and good "wind" are necessary. Did most of my birdhunting for grouse and woodcock w/ English setters {preferred} and also some English pointers which were a little far ranging for woodland birds. Can't really comment on the springers until the specific birds are mentioned....Fred

 

[biliff]

Just wondering if any of you fellas hunt birds over dogs with blackpowder ??

There's another way??

I hunt birds over a pointing dog. Given the short range nature of most cylinder bore BP guns and the time needed to get 'em cocked and into action they seem to work out better than a flushing dog.

Then again, if you keep your dog in short working range and learn to read 'em real well you should be able to get some decent shooting over a flushing dog. I just don't have the legs or lungs for it anymore.

 

[Rancocas]

I used to raise, train, field trail, and hunt over English Springer Spaniels.
Got my first Springer when I lived in Arizona. I wanted a dog to hunt the desert Gambel's quail and also to retrieve ducks on the lower Colorado River. Because I hunted waterfowl out of a canoe I wanted a relatively small dog that wouldn't turn the canoe over when it jumped out. Fifty pound Springers fit the bill perfectly for me.
Moved on to upstate New York where I introduced my dogs to ruffed grouse. Then to Michigan where my dogs met old Mr. Ringneck.
My last Springer died several years ago. I don't have a hunting dog anymore, just a house mutt.
Train your dog carefully. Introduce the dog to gunfire very carefully and slowly because a gunshy hunting dog is worthless.
Oh, by the way; Are you aware that there are two distinct types of ESS? The bench show type are the pretty ones with longer hair, bigger boned, generally droopy lower eyelids, and are sometimes inflicted with "Spaniel Rage". The field type are generally smaller, leaner, a little shorter haired, their eyelids mostly do not droop - these are the slim, trim atheletes of the breed.
But both types will hunt.

 

[bucktales]

Yep,.. but not with BP. :shake:

 

[longcruise]

I hunt coyotes over a feather decoy. Does that mean I hunt dogs over birds?

 

[J.M.]

I have shot pheasants with a fowler and my Springer. As long as the dog stays in range you will be OK. Teach her to hup (sit) on a whistle and if she gets on a running bird stop her and catch up to her, then release her to hunt. Springers are a blast to hunt over, and absolutley deadly on pheasants. You will enjoy hunting with her, they are very nice dogs and great additions to your family too.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Its all in how the dog is trained, and how you maintain the discipline. I have had the pleasure of hunting over a couple of dogs at a hunting Preserve, owned and operated by a woman field dog trainer, and she is one of the best. She will take out both a pointer, or two, and a retriever with customers. Its a joy to watch the dogs work, and she works them every day so that discipline is maintained. Her dogs were not gunshy, and they only flinch a little when the BP shotgun boom!!! :shocked2: :rotf:

After the first couple of shots, they didn't even do that. After talking to her at length, and working with a police K-9 trainer over several years, I am convinced that most problems with field dogs is lack of training to maintain skills, and discipline. Her pointers, for instance, stayed within 25 feet of the hunters. Her retriever stayed at her side as we walked through the fields searching out the birds. He did not go after a downed bird until she sent him, and she only sent him after she had her pointers sit down. Once she had the retriever returning with the bird, she would release the pointers to mill around and sniff the bird brought back, before it went into a game pouch. Only when the shooters were ready( ie. I got my gun reloaded) did she send the pointers back out to search for another bird.

 

[Hanz]

I haven't used BP with my Drahthaar yet but I'd like to give it a go this season. The only thing stopping me is time and money :grin: I think I'd like a 20 gauge Fowler but I just don't know enough about them and don't want to make a poor decision. Then again a BP SXS would be better for my shooting inability :haha:

 

[slowpokebr549]

I have put in some time behind German Shorthairs with a BP twelve gauge. I might not of gotten off as many rounds(especially on covey rises) but I learned some good lessons. My dogs might of gotten a little exasperated waiting for me to load but I had a good time. My single barrel is deadly on quail,quick to mount and light to carry.

 

[wirehairman]

I gave it a go last season with the SxS 12 gauge and had some success.

However, in the future, I think it will be a special event and most likely over my buddies' dogs as it was a lot of work to run my dogs and the ML. I may be overly concerned with safety but definitely prefer my SxS 20 that I can break open and know is unloaded until the dogs go on point. That way I can devote 100% of my attention to the dogs and not be distracted by a loaded but not cocked gun.

 

[hawk]

I'll be going after grouse and ring necks with my fowler I'll be leaving the migratory birds to the breech loader.
I'm tring to keep all my training in close .
I don't expect alot out of her this season ...if she hups and flushes i'll be happy heck if she hups i'll be happy... it's like the "old man" said
can only teach 'em some manners.
and thank you all for the kind words about my dog

 

[Idaho Ron]

No one needs a "good set of legs" to hunt with a spaniel. The dog needs to be trained. I am a AKC hunt test judge for spaniels. I have titled the first Idaho bred ESS to an AKC MASTER Hunter title in Idaho. He was the second dog to title as a MH in Idaho.
I didn't have to run to keep up with the dog. It is all about training. If the dog is not trained then get some running shoes if you don't plan on training.
The problem with quotes about spaniels and the need for running shoes is a lot of people think that ALL spaniels are like that. Only the untrained ones.
In the original post he said the dog will teach him to hunt. I am sorry but the dog has never hunted so how can it teach? If you were to have ever hunted with my MH Buzz he would have tought you to hunt. Go slow, train the dog right and get control of it. If you have never trained and finished a Spaniel see if you can find a club to help you. It will be worth it you can count on that. This is the late Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Master Hunter. The finest hunting spaniel to have ever hunted and Tested in AKC here in Idaho. Ron

 

[Roy]

Great pics. :thumbsup: I totally agree about the training.

 

[Vaino]

I've hunted WILD pheasants and ruffed grouse over both springers, labs and pointing dogs and enjoyed all. The problem w/ slow, close workers of both types is that they never catch up to the bird. Both wild pheasants and grouse are runners and a bold, aggresive dog is needed to either cause a flush or bring the bird to point. I've seen a slow, close working springer work a pheasant for 3/4 mile and never did flush the bird. Same thing w/ a slow working setter of mine....point, break...point, break...and this would go on and on and the bird would eventually flush way ahead of the dog. This dog was good on woodcock because they don't run very far and most of the time, not at all. When pheasants are plentiful any kind of dog will "scare 'em up" and in fact, in some areas, a dog isn't necessary at all. {Dakota drives}. No...I like aggresive, hard working dogs that will do whatever it takes to put meat on the table and the hunter just has to keep up.....Fred

 

[slowpokebr549]

On the flip side of the coin,I have seen some long legged pointers crashing through coveys 1/4 mile away. I like a german shorthairs myself. Well trained, they will range out a ways and come back in if called.My dogs were all good retrievers as well. Hard to get those hard chargers to hunt dead, and I don't want to feed a lab so he can clean up after my pointers.I can't speak with much authority about pheasants though, that is a whole different ballgame from quail. I learned early on in my hunting career, never talk down a breed of dog. It's worse than religion or politics.

 

[Vaino]

I agree w/ your assessment of big going pointers and found them unmanageable at times. Bold, aggressive dogs cover more ground and in this day of low density bird populations, can still produce. A friend wanted to hunt pheasants and rec'd permission to hunt on 400 acres so I put my English setter to work and a little over an hour later had 3 cock pheasants and I asked..."where to now?" seeing the dog had covered the entire 400 acres. By the way....the pheasants were within a 50 yd. radius and could have been missed except for a fairly big ranging dog. German shorthairs are excellent birddogs and are very comfortable to hunt with. One of my best grouse flushers was a 120 lb. German shepherd...his nose was amazing but you had to get to the bird quickly because of his very hard mouth. Always liked springers and the ones I hunted over always got the job done...Fred

 

[Rancocas]

I used to like bird hunting down wind. I would send my Springers out as far as 40 yards and they would swing back and forth in front of me (called "quartering") as I took my own sweet time ambling along. Since we were moving downwind, any birds the dog scented would be pinned between the dog and me. The dog would turn in, coming toward me, when it went to flush the bird. As a result, most of my shots were at 20 to 30 yards.
My dogs were trained to obey voice, whistle, and hand signals.
My "Rosie", (November Rose) was the best pheasant, grouse, and woodcock dog that I ever had. Plus, she was a good duck retriever in the milder weather before ice-up. Every man should have at least one really good dog during his lifetime. Rosie was mine. She died several years ago at age 14.
Springers don't have the heavy coats and the fortitude to swim icy waters like the Labs and Chesapeakes do.
Each breed has their own special talents, and temperments, and a man should choose the dog breed that best fits his own personality and hunting methods.

 

[Vaino]

You've mentioned some good points as regards the various breeds of dogs that are capable of hunting the many different game birds. The bird hunter himself has to match his motivation and physical shape to the type of dog he chooses and the bird he pursues. Once invited a friend to grouse hunt for a weekend and after a Sat. AM of hunting, he told me that he's leaving beause that's not his idea of hunting. He was totally and physically "whacked out" and left in the PM. A few days later after discussing the hunt w/ him, I came away w/ the impression that he thought we'd just hunt a bit and then retire to the cabin for drinks,eats,relaxation and card playing. Following my setter through the thickets was just too much for him. Matching the bird dog to the hunter and his quarry is paramount for a satisfying hunt....Fred

 

[Roy]

patience kills deer and turkeys... legs kill grouse :haha: