Whole Patches & Shredded Patches

[Christophero]

I'm still messing with this fairly new to me 1985 circa 54 Caliber GPR and PRB's. The backstory is that it shreds patches using 80 grains of FFFg off and on. I've Scotchbrited the bore and even have applied a generous amount of valve lapping compound on the tight Scotchbrite to smooth the notoriously sharp lands some. Plus, the crown has been touched up to remove any sharp edges there, too. The PRB's load much smoother, but they still shred here and there.

Now the update: Sunday's range time focused on using Goex FFg, which I haven't done in many years and the first time for this rifle. Reading that higher charges can be better with the GPR I initially loaded 100 grains and rammed the ball down the barrel. The ball didn't hit the target board at 100 yards. (I'm still tweeking the new front sight, so there's that). The hammer blew back so the next number of shots were loaded using 90 grains.
The ground gobbles up patches in the old grass and soybean field but I did find a couple to show.

Shot one did not have a patch wadding over the powder before loading the PRB. I'm thinking this may be that patch found a few shots later:

Or, it could be a patch wad as all shots after #1 were loaded with one. As clean as this patch is I'm leaning on it being patch for shot 1. May never know fully.

The next patch I could find 12 steps from the front of the barrel, give or take:

I know it had a dry patch wad over the powder as it isn't patch from shot 1 because it is too dirty with fouling from being rammed down and shot out of the bore.

Here is another subsequent patch found:

The last two loads were using 95 grains, and this is probably a spit patch from one of those firings.

These patches are from Walmart, white 100% cotton tick or drill. I took a micrometer to the store to measure what was needed for the Hornady .530 swaged RB's. The cloth was washed twice before cutting into patches. I'm trying to follow all the suggestions and advise giving on this board. My history with BP was mainly pure lead MaxiHunters that I cast, but have switched to the PRB after loosing my mold in a move and my stock ran out some years back. And it is fun. In my other rifles it didn't take long to find what works, but this Lyman is taking more effort. Not that I mind terribly, but it is about time to find the right combination and shoot for hunting practice in earnest.

Okay, one more thing. TC Bore Butter (I know, how foolish of me) has served 35 years well with the conical and the other PBR's I shoot from the other rifles. This past Sunday's patches were also TC BB with the two or three last shots being lubed with spit. I'm not wanting to mix up a witch's concoction, but if you believe a better lube is necessary then please share your thoughts on this, as well.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Lyman GPR barrels that I have personally seen vary from good to terrible, it like a box of chocolate, you never know what you will get. I don’t believe there’s a magic lube that will over come every thing. Good luck with your adventure.

 

[Flintlock]

Try a different type of patch different fabric, thinner and or thicker, try a better lube, you could try a bit of wasp nest between the charge and patch.

 

[Christophero]

I have tried the blue striped 100% cotton ticking, also. It is thinner, loads easier but isn't as accurate in my tests. Somewhere on this board I saw a recommendation of Joann's Fabric ticking. I need to look that up, write it down for my next trip near one of those stores.

At one point with the 50 Blue Ridge long rifle, AKA Pedersoli Frontier, I lubed thin linen with, I believe olive oil. Those load easily and shot well. That seemed to work well but I cannot recall if any other ingredient was added to that. I suppose conducting a search on these forums for patch material and lubes would be the next logical step. See if I can wring out the best accuracy from this rifle. I expect it has it in it if I can hit upon what it likes best.

 

[TreeMan]

I have three 54 rifles including a GPR. All of them shoot the best with right at 80gr of 2F Goex. I use .018 ticking and a 530 ball in my GPR. It’s a very accurate rifle and I shoot it in matches. In matches I use -0° windshield washer fluid as lube or spit. For hunting I’ll use mink oil. My GPR can shoot an entire 25 round match without wiping between shots. Keep your shooting at 25 yards until you get the patch, load and accuracy thing down pat. Don’t adjust or file sights until you find that one hole
Load at 25 yards.

 

[rafterob]

As others said keep experimenting. The patches aren't burnt, they look cut. Maybe too tight of a load? What are you using to start the ball? Is it cutting the patch against the barrel as you start the ball? your second patch in the picture looks good so my guess is in the starting procedure.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

What if you just patch with a tight patch and no wad? I never use a wad... Only wad for shot with an overshot card, too - in my smooth bores.

 

[S.Kenton]

It could be a combo of a tight patch, lube, and material quality issue. I’d try some different ticking, I’d try pure olive oil as a lube and back your powder charge down a tad between 70 -80 grains. Also you can experiment with an over powder card. Just take a spent patch that’s fairly complete and crumple it up and stuff it down over your powder charge before your patched ball is loaded. Let us know how it goes.. good luck and good smoke!

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Using an oversized piece of patch material, seat a ball flush with the muzzle. Then pull it back out and examine for cuts caused by a sharp edge at the muzzle.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Christophero,
Thi
The circular cuts are usually an indication of a sharp crown. You can smooth the crown easily enough using wet or dry metal sandpaper and your thumb.

Start with 320 grit paper and with your thumb pressed into the muzzle work back and forth as you rotate the rifle. After about two rotations, use a finer grit paper and repeat the smoothing of the muzzle. Once the machine marks at the muzzle are gone or the crown feels very smooth you are done.

Tiny holes on the lands indicate sharp lands. The sharp lands can be eased by wrapping 0000 steel wool around the jag and running about 50 to 100 up and down strokes of the barrel. Or the rifle can be shot about 200 times.

I prefer the #40 Drill Cloth in the Utility Cloth section of JoAnn's Fabricks. It measures about 0.018" in thickness. It has a reasonable compression and has a tight weave. JoAnn's has a good selection of denim and canvas. Sometimes the thicker canvas material protects from cuts from the lands, but you may need a smaller ball to be able to load the rifle.

Before you go to JoAnn's, visit their website to get a coupon for 40% off on one fabric cut.

JOANN Coupons – Online & Store Coupons & Promo Codes

 

[Rifleman1776]

The hammer blew back so the next number of shots were loaded using 90 grains.

You need a new nipple. Get a Hot Shot brand. Don't knock lube mixes as witches brew. There are many out there that will give you good results. That commercial BB is not the best stuff. Keep shooting and the patch cutting will go away.

 

[doubleset]

Re patch material, just some comments that MIGHT matter if you go wandering in that direction:

I've bought patch material (generally "ticking" of one type or another) from both Joann's and Walmart, and in different thicknesses. To my surprise, I found a better selection at Walmart -- but you have to find a Walmart with a fabric section. Pricing varies. The last bunch I got was one of the hanging pre-cut and packaged offerings. Paid a bit more for it, but it was worth it to me. So at least keep Walmart in mind for patch material.

Is your patch material sized (starched)? Or is it sizing-free? Or did you wash it to get the sizing out? That MIGHT make a difference. I've seen different reports about that. Just a thought. I like to get mine without sizing in it. If you wash it, that will generally affect the thickness.

In my experience, the color of the ticking (blue, red, black, gray, ... whatever) is not anything close to a reliable indicator of the thickness. Maybe it was at one time, and maybe it is from some sources, but not generally. My digital calipers go with me whenever I buy patch material. Otherwise, how do I know how thick it is? The variance in thickness is surprising: from below 0.010" to past 0.020".

Make sure your patch material is 100% natural fiber (cotton or linen). No poly.

My sister is a competent seamstress, quilt maker, etc. for many years. She is VERY particular about the sources of the material she buys (including ticking). She's good with India, but not with China. I'm not sure how to determine fabric quality myself by just looking at it, and I think it takes a lot of experience. But it does make a difference, and the apparently random differences in your shot patches MIGHT be a consequence of some fabric quality issue. Just a thought.

 

[Bad Karma]

You need a new nipple. Get a Hot Shot brand. Don't knock lube mixes as witches brew. There are many out there that will give you good results. That commercial BB is not the best stuff. Keep shooting and the patch cutting will go away.

Agree with this but the Ampco nipple usually has a smaller diameter orifice. If you shoot Pyrodex or other substitutes the HotShot is good. For black powder I prefer the Ampco from Buffalo Arms Company.

 

[Okie Hog]

What if you just patch with a tight patch and no wad?

Works for me. My patch material is drill cloth.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Agree with this but the Ampco nipple usually has a smaller diameter orifice. If you shoot Pyrodex or other substitutes the HotShot is good. For black powder I prefer the Ampco from Buffalo Arms Company.

Bad, that is a puzzling response. The hot shot nipple was designed by Dan Pawlak, the inventor of Pyrodex. Dan was a genuine rocket propellant scientist. Very smart guy. He learned many shooters were having difficulty getting ignition with Pyrodex. So he designed the hot shot using rocket propellent principals. I was in on that early testing and found the hot shot to give far more reliable ignition with all powders than other brands on the market. IMHO, Ampco is good but Hot Shot brand is far superior.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I've always found a better selection of materials from JoAnn's Fabrics than Walmart. JoAnn's has drill cloth while Walmart does not, nor does Walmart carry a wide selection of denim and canvas. Most important to be sure the fabric is 100% cotton.

I tell the quality of the weave of a fabric by holding it up to let light shine through. If there are a lot of pin holes of light, that is a loose weave. Of course, the fabric must be washed in hot water to flush out the sizing that is used by the manufacturers to improve the feel to the buyer and for ease in rolling the fabric onto bolts. The cotton will shrink a little bit on washing to also tighten up the weave, make the fabric a bit softer and after washing will absorb the lubrication better.

 

[ZUG]

My 2 cents on this is that your lube is not doing it's job. Different types of patch material will have an effect on "burn-through" but the lube coupled with the right patch thickness for YOUR rifle will do the trick. You just have to experiment

 

[Tasbay]

I have been having issues similar to yours with my 50cal GPR. Seem to have finally sorted it. At the range yesterday I shot only .495 balls weighing 175-180grains ( my lee mold throws them from 171 - 180 grains, as it heats up?) with 85 grains of homemade powder and Olive oil lube ticking patches.
Finally the patches picked up were in good condition and the 50yrd group was about 1-1/2 inch.
Keep trying you will get it.

 

[Doc]

I have tried the blue striped 100% cotton ticking, also. It is thinner, loads easier but isn't as accurate in my tests. Somewhere on this board I saw a recommendation of Joann's Fabric ticking. I need to look that up, write it down for my next trip near one of those stores.

At one point with the 50 Blue Ridge long rifle, AKA Pedersoli Frontier, I lubed thin linen with, I believe olive oil. Those load easily and shot well. That seemed to work well but I cannot recall if any other ingredient was added to that. I suppose conducting a search on these forums for patch material and lubes would be the next logical step. See if I can wring out the best accuracy from this rifle. I expect it has it in it if I can hit upon what it likes best.

 

[Doc]

Joann’s ticking and /or drill has a nice tight weave but unfortunately it comes in one thickness, Bridgers Best a pre-cut patch also has a tight weave and comes in various thickness from .005 to .020. It’s a thought if you would like to try a different thickness .
Doc,