Why are others always tweaking with their guns?

[MarkItZero]

I'm still fairly new to black powder so bare with me. But why are people always talking about fixing timing and doing action jobs, trigger jobs, teaming cylinders? Especially on brand new revolvers? All I've ever done is cleaned off the packing oil, loaded and fired, am I doing something wrong or did I get exceptionally good guns out of the box?

Or are the guys doing this kind of stuff the guys that can't leave anything alone? I.e. adding intake and exhaust to a new car?

 

[Bad Karma]

I suspect the latter. For the most part I am like you, shoot the things for a,while until you know it needs to be “fixed”. I have done some work on some guns, and had others worked on but only after running it as normal first.

 

[bang]

After making numerous contacts with manufactures I can tell you that they do care the gun is safe and does operate. When it comes to trying to understand from their point of view any specifics though it's always "they are only reproductions". That one thing is why all open top, Colt style, one really should insure the arbor fit is correct.
I've been shooting bp almost 50 years. I've had a couple that needed tweaking. A little polishing of internal parts. 3 that had a bit undersized cylinder bores that needed reaming. 1 that needed same plus forcing cone polish and crown. 1 needed taller front sight. That's total of 3 revolvers out of 11 I've owned over that near 50 years. Still have the first revolver I bought and it is still all original at 47 years old and still shoots.
Some tweak obvious, let's say blimishes, that make function a tad rough. Erroneous tolerance issues such as bolt timing causing cylinder drag which in itself doesn't cause malfunction but will make a mark on cylinder finish.
Then there is personalized tweaking. Those things that are not particularly needed but just fit the requirements for the shooter.
Most of the pre 80s needed some tweaking. Was nature of manufacturing methods. As methods like numerical control milling and even metallurgy improved so did quality.
Mass majority shoot good right out of the box.
Still good to completely disassemble, clean, check for burrs and reassemble with a good lube. The other items will will depend on actual functional operation, accuracy desired and personal choices.

 

[M. De Land]

Some of us with some gun training and experience can look over a gun and see things that need work right off the bat or it will emediately begin to deteriorate. Factory reproduction guns are getting quite good now days but about 30 years ago this was not the case. I've never personally owned a gun that did not need some improvements to action function and trigger pull. Most will be tight in the bore under the threads in solid frame guns and a good number of them will not have perfectly uniform chamber mouth diameters . The open tops generally need some refitting to be at their best as well.

 

[Greg Blackburn]

The only tweeks I have had done to guns were trigger jobs on carry revolvers and I had TC adjustable sights added to my CVA Bobcat, which changed everything with that rifle.

Before, I couldn't hit jack with it but after, jack was not safe at all.

Some people just like to work on things or have things worked on. It would be interesting to look into those people and see if the behavior extends to other areas of their lives as well, then we can begin to discover if it's more of a personality trait.

 

[LawrenceA]

An excellent question
I think it does go to ones personality and I believe also their experience, exposure and ability.
Basically I think if you are the type of person who would make a powder horn or build a gun then the rest is not off limits.

If you are just looking at revolvers then personally I have only had 2 (Hard to keep in Australia).
The first was a second hand brass framed colt. First things I did was a reblue and trigger job. Why? cause I could.
The other is an original Remington New Army. All I did was grease and oil. I have done brand new S&W's for others.

Any firearm I get, new or old, modern or historic, gets a Grease and oil. Check the bedding and the trigger. Check the sights shoot straight. Mostly slick the actions as well. Why?
Most firearms are made to a price this price usually means rough enough is good enough with burrs and sharp edges. But newer guns are generally worse.
Trigger - Factory Triggers are often creepy, notchy and heavy. What's not to hate?
Sights - I do not want to be trying to remember where each gun shoots. Have them shoot to the same POI at whatever distance you expect to use them.
Smoothing - I find a bit of smoothing makes a gun feel better. It can also improve lock life and function.
Caplocks usually get new nipples as well as a thorough scrubbing and depending on condition a rebrown and stock finish. By a little judicious adjustment you can coax the nipple to split where you want it to.
Flintlocks I will look at relative spring strengths as well as rebrown and stock finish if required.
As my eyes get older sights get some attention as well.

Am I over doing it? Maybe.
But I enjoy it.
Does it improve my shooting? Probably not appreciably, but makes it more personal and enjoyable.

There is a great deal of satisfaction (and frustration) to be had from personalizing your gear. Just need to know how far to push your limits and be prepared to say "I broke it, please fix it for me. Here is some money for your trouble".

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

My “gun tweaking” is 100% about getting it to reliably shoot, period. I only have two so far (a rifle and a pistol I just built), and as they are both what I would classify as “entry level,” the locks are only mediocre, so they need tweaking.

Now for accoutrements, it’s an entirely different story. I love making useful, fairly period-correct accoutrements. I’ve sewed a couple of shooting bags and made numerous other accessories. That’s both fun (esp during the winter down-months) AND useful.

 

[ZUG]

I am in the same boat as Woodnbow & Bang -- My oldest BP revolver is a 1975 Uberti Remington 1858 and it is still tight and in time nothing has been done to the internals. I don't over-load it and I treat it with kindness when finished shooting it. I have newer ones both Pietta's and Uberti's and some of them do need some burr removal on parts otherwise I don't "monkey" with them or do any "Bubba" work to them.

 

[M. De Land]

A lot of this is knowing what a model of revolver is supposed to be able to do and then being able recognize what is not up to full potential. If one doesn't know this than they can be perfectly satisfied with what the factory gave them and if it will preform to their individual expectation all is well.
Those that recognize what could be improved will not be happy until it has been attained wither by their own hand or a professional. The point is to get a piece to preform to your own personal expectation and performance level. When achieved than the piece will provide much enjoyment to the owner.

 

[sawyer04]

Well, the replicas are machined at a rapid rate and their is machine marks that could rub on a hammer, trigger or what ever it is against. Sights have been tinkered with since the beginning. I like a smooth and distinct click in the action and a quick smooth response as to trigger pull. Tinkering just to be tinkering can be a little dangerous and ruin a good thing, but smoothing and proper bolt fit are a must. 2 cents here.

 

[M. De Land]

The other thing too is notions on gun work get going out there that have no real basis in fact or function other than some gun rag somewhere said so there for it becomes fact. I like to test most of these ideas and find out for myself if they are true or not and some are legitimate where other not so much.
A for instance. I used to believe a revolver was out of time if the bolt didn't drop directly into the cylinder lead in notch but have found this to be pure BS from personal experience and reading actual repair manuals. I now purposely set mine up after a good bolt nose polish to drop at the half way point and help slow down the cylinder rotation energy before the bolt nose drops into the lead then notch and slams into the far side wall. I find late bolt lift to be the main issue when out of time as it burrs off the top of the far side notch wall as the cylinder is tring to turn before the bolt nose is totally clear.

 

[JamesT]

I'm still fairly new to black powder so bare with me. But why are people always talking about fixing timing and doing action jobs, trigger jobs, teaming cylinders? Especially on brand new revolvers? All I've ever done is cleaned off the packing oil, loaded and fired, am I doing something wrong or did I get exceptionally good guns out of the box?

Or are the guys doing this kind of stuff the guys that can't leave anything alone? I.e. adding intake and exhaust to a new car?

An original pistol would be good to go as one would expect. An Italian repro is more made to sell than to shoot. Lucky if you have an Italian made pistol that can perform after you tinker with the action as required

 

[TNGhost]

It is a practice even with modern carry guns to modify them for more reliable function and to tailor them to one's own preferences and needs. 1911s are infamous for the amount of work to get them "carry ready" or "target ready", and an entire industry has been spawned in upgrading factory guns even from major manufacturers. An analogy can be made from there to cap and ball pistols.

As mentioned, the Italian repros are finely made, but are lacking in some ways as an everyday and/or target shooter.

Notably they are prone to cap jams and their sights are not set to point of aim, so those are two areas that receive the most attention. The first speaks to reliability, the second to usability.

Also the match of cylinder to bore diameter is not always desirable and reaming cylinders is often done in the interest of better accuracy. Also opening up the area where the projectile is inserted into the cylinder to more resemble the originals, and enable the easier use of conical paper cartridges is another oft done alteration.

So most work has basis in actual needed performance characteristics, and to bring them on par with the originals for function, although with some modifications, it just amounts to owners wanting that personal touch.

 

[LawrenceA]

An original pistol would be good to go as one would expect. An Italian repro is more made to sell than to shoot. Lucky if you have an Italian made pistol that can perform after you tinker with the action as required

Don't be so sure
There is a lot of original colts that were dodgy from the word go. Basically war production. I am sure there are others as well not picking on Colt.

 

[TNGhost]

Tweaking and modification are nothing new. Many famous gun carriers "back in the day" had their favorite gunsmiths and modifications. Modified grips action tunings, reduction in size for carry, were all common during the period when cap and ball was the cutting edge technology.

 

[JamesT]

Don't be so sure
There is a lot of original colts that were dodgy from the word go. Basically war production. I am sure there are others as well not picking on Colt.

Understand. I was making a point as to the modern replica using inferior spring steel and metalurgy in some cases. Not saying they arent a good bargain for someone wanting to shoot cap and ball. I enjoy them myself. I have never heard of shoddy pistols during war production be it Colt or any other maker. I would find that an interesting read. Do you know where you heard that or provide the text? Was it from a military source?

 

[Kansas Jake]

I've had a number of reproduction revolvers. Most have been quite good for the price paid and function well even if I have tweaked them in some cases. It isn't all that uncommon for purchasers of new unmentionable firearms to have to return them for some repair.

 

[LawrenceA]

Understand. I was making a point as to the modern replica using inferior spring steel and metalurgy in some cases. Not saying they arent a good bargain for someone wanting to shoot cap and ball. I enjoy them myself. I have never heard of shoddy pistols during war production be it Colt or any other maker. I would find that an interesting read. Do you know where you heard that or provide the text? Was it from a military source?

Making me think now.
Certainly not a military source.
I read somewhere that there were issues at the start of the WBTS and Colt got chipped for it.

 

[M. De Land]

My early Pietta (1860 Colt 1980's) had a soft trigger that I tried hardening with Kasenite 2 or 3 times and it would not hold the edge so finally made a new one of tool steel that is still going strong. The wedge also battered so made a new one also of tool steel. It has always been accurate though but I did have to solder in a new brass front blade to make it hit center at 25 yards. The gun absolutely needed all of these tweaks to make it right.

 

[Art Caputo]

I have owned a few 2nd Gen Colts, 2/1851 Navy’s, and a 3rd Model Dragoon that I have shot for about 20 years. All three have functioned and shot very well right out of the box with no modification except for slight filing of the hammer/sight notch on one of the Navy’s.