Why Do You Not Shoot In Line Matches?

[BrownBear]

Back from the Texas State M/L Championship Shoot and was wondering why folks do not participate in line matches?

You can learn a lot from experienced shooters and for the most part they are willing mentors if you ask.

Thoughts and why?

I'm betting the line shooters could learn a whole, whole lot from me and others about hunting, which all has to happen before the first shot is fired. Completely different interests. For me the shot is the afterthought, and the end of something much more important to me.

 

[Treestalker]

Back in the dream time, mid 70's, my brother Tiny joined the ML club at Beaumont, Texas. They shot on a regular basis at the range just south of town. It was a traditional club but a couple of older members were allowed to use a scope on their sidelock guns. Tiny asked me if I'd like to go one shoot day, and I said sure. I was married and raising a child on a garbage truck driver's salary. My wife had been widowed and still had her previous husband's ml rifle, a basket case CVA Kentucky type percussion .45. I hurriedly cobbled together enough gear to shoot it and went with Tiny to the shoot. They were a great bunch of guys, about 25 in number. Upon shooting a bench match, the fore end of my rifle came off the gun! The guy next to me laid down his custom curly maple flintlock beauty and helped me get my rifle back together and I finished the match. Needless to say I have enjoyed MLing ever since, but I have never shot ML competition of any kind since those long ago days with the informal Beaumont club. I learned a lot about sportsmanship and manners from them and my brother has long since passed, but the legacy is not forgotten. A few younger people have learned from me, but mostly I try to build stuff and do my own thing. It's a wonderful hobby to have in these rude, indifferent, light speed times we live in. The Forum is a great resource for old wiseacres like me, and I thank Angie and the Mods and all of you for your work and sharing.

 

[Don Steele]

At this point in my life...I've competed in just about every firearm competition available to me wherever I was living. When I was younger...I took most of them VERY seriously. Sometimes that was less fun than it should have been, and that's on me.
Since I got involved in shooting muzzleloaders for more than just hunting season...I've found a lot of enjoyment with only the pressure I put on myself in my attempt to achieve consistent results. MY playing field is always perfectly level because I'm the only person I'm trying to beat.
Whether I'm on the line at Friendship or my local club, doing a woodswalk, or whatever the match is..I'm only trying to do as well as I have previously done and not "let myself down". That's tough enough, I don't have to worry about how everyone else is doing or where my score ranks.

 

[longcruise]

I'll say right off that I got my first ml to hunt but the help I needed along the way came from people I met at shoots.

At one of my first shoots a small group of guys were shooting afterwards for a quarter a shot. They welcomed me to join them and gave me tips and suggestions. I managed to walk away up one quarter so I got paid to learn from some of the best. These guys were some of the top shooters in the state and as far as they were concerned it was all good fun.

If you are encountering small minded and petty shooters, just move on till you meet up with the right kind of people.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I used to compete in biathlon (the skiing and shooting version not the primitive version) and line matches with muzzleloaders. Both of those experiences plus growing up with my brother, John, one of the best shooters in the NSSA, taught me how to shoot well. However, now I don't enjoy line matches and I find I have little in common with the shooters. Many have no appreciation for historical details, design, or the artistry of gunmaking. They just want a gun that shoots well, which I understand. It could look like a hockey stick and they would not care as long as it shoots well. I don't enjoy building guns for paper target shooters because they don't care one whit about the fine details I provide and often mar the guns I make with various site changes that are amateurishly done rather than bring me the gun and let me do it right. I find that I just don't have much in common with them anymore.

dave

 

[FishDFly]

I appreciate your insight. I look at M/L guns as tools to do a job. I line shoot and hunt with my M/L's . If I were to own a piece of your work, I would ruin it, using it as a tool.

Would I like to own a piece of your work, yes, but it would be a dis-respect to your talent.

 

[dave_person]

Hi FDF,
I understand the desires and needs of target shooters and all of my guns are tools to be used no matter how decorated. My silver and steel mounted English fowler I built last year is my go to woods walk gun and I am not concerned if it gets scratched and worn. They are set up to shoot really well and fit the owner. What annoys me about target shooters I've built for, is they don't seem to have any appreciation for the gun except that it shoots well. So even when they only live a short distance away, instead of bringing me the gun to change the sights, they hack away at the barrels with their files to fit new sights and inevitably they make a hash of the job so it is loose. Then they simply dimple the barrel with punch marks or pile on JB Weld, all of which looks terrible and ruins the browning I carefully put on the barrel. The guns are theirs and they can do what they want but I can also choose not to build for target shooters anymore.

dave

 

[Okie Hog]

Attended some matches in the 60s and 70s.

Would rather sneak up and put a round ball into the ear of a deer or hog.

 

[FishDFly]

Zonie, has a phrase that I like, frinkle.

When I buy a M/L, I do not frinkle with it. I buy what I need and know the builder knows what he is doing. If it does not fit my needs/desire, I do not need to buy it.

I enjoy line matches and only shoot against my self. I never look at the board until the shoot is over. I keep a record of each target that I shoot and know at the end, how I did. My mentor taught me to shoot better than I did the last time in each match.

Reason that I did the original post is we were talking one evening and wondering why we could not get more new shooters to join us. I have learned a lot reading the responses but have not found any one real answer, but I had a feeling I would not find a singular answer or two.

As long as folks are having fun, that is what is important.

fdf

 

[SDSmlf]

why folks do not participate in line matches?

My primary muzzleloading concern is the first shot, from a clean bore, for accuracy. To me, nothing else matters. I practice and target shoot to get ready for hunting season. But don’t mind competition and enjoy the comradely. While a non topic here, shot a local CMP match this past weekend, another group that is struggling to attract participants. Was home by 11AM. As far as muzzleloader line shoots, my honest answer, there are no line shoots within a couple of hours of where I live. At my home ‘range’ 35 minutes away (25 miles), I can shoot most anything I want from dawn until dusk. Usually by myself. Been a club member well over 10 years and have NEVER seen a traditional muzzleloader that was not brought by me at the range.

Traditional muzzleloader shooters are a small part of a constantly aging and shrinking group of shooters and hunters that has yet to find, let alone, commit to bringing younger participants into the game. Don’t have an answer, but as a group, what we have been doing is not reducing the shrinking participation, let alone the growing the sport. It simply isn't working, whatever it is we are doing.

 

[Redbearcat]

What’s the prize? Status, bragging rights, beating everyone? I like shooting for fun. Taking it to the next step seems a little juvenile.

 

[Grenadier1758]

My club has 10 club matches and 5 informal matches a year. That leaves about 350 days of individual shooting. The matches are great for comradarie and good natured teasing about our shooting prowess.

The prize is getting out and shooting with friends.

 

[Howard Pippin]

We all have an opinion on matches as well we should. For the first 20 years I generally shot alone Or Only once or twice with a friend. not all that frequently, for most of those years as I had to have a job. Now I attend 2 turkey shoots a year with some grand fellows that are all friends, about 10 or 12 of us. If you shoot good that day, you might get half of your fee back, and if you shoot poorly It cost you $10. I guess most of my pleasure come from experimental loading, experimental sights and experimental patch lube. It is a pleasure thing for me, the turkey shoots are 45 miles away and they are the closest for competition of any kind. In my small one horse town, I think there's two of us that own muzzleloaders and the other fellow doesn't shoot very often.I do have an NRA approved target range about a mile and a half from town and that's where I generally shoot. Finding a place to shoot in Montana, most of time is very easy. There's 5000 people in my whole County, and it's About 1 and1/4 the size of Massachusetts.Needless to say, You can go for days Out in the country and never see anyone.
Squint

 

[sawyer04]

I went to a club shoot once. The guys were nice enough and welcoming and encouraged me to join the club. But it wasn't for me. They were ALL ABOUT winning and scoring points. Strict time limits between shots, no talking on the line, like we were on the golf course putting or something. Period dress was even a competition for them and was scored. I just wanted to burn some powder with other muzzle loader guys. I did not go back. Like I said, they were some okay guys and I wish em all well but it was not what I was looking for.

Exactly why some of us old farm boys get together on one of our places after the crop year. No harm against any shooter wanting competition but, we think the best competition is with oneself. Have nothing against shooting clubs and such, they are needed in the world of shooting for the people that don't have a space to shoot and introduce the sport to youngsters that would never have a chance to be introduced and from the ones involved I have meant, they are great people. The youngest of our 11 neighbors is 61 and the oldest is 83; some using the old original firearms of their ancestors. I like the persona I see here on line, but outside of a few old top hats we just show up in the old country clothes we use everyday. This year I have the pleasure of hosting, since plenty of the little tree rodents are available this year we are going to have a squirrel hunt and see if we can coax the ladies in joining us for a squirrel fry.
All in all I think we are just a group of old cantankerous, arrogant, bull headed guys that sometimes are agreeable and sometimes not, depending on the weather and the arthritis level for the day. We do set up camp and have a camp kitchen, but due the aches of older age we intend to stay pretty comfortable. It has been discussed about attending club shoots, and some of us have attended. Shoot all day and then spend the money to have something to eat; and we all admit it is not them: it is us when it comes to the social aspect of the public exposure.

 

[mushka]

Back in the day, the 80's for me, I was a serious .30 cal rifle shooter. National matches for 8 years straight. Match shooting became a job rather than fun. When I went distinguished with the rifle I quit being totally committed to that game. Having the loss of the right eye had something to do with match shooting being over with. I'm not a social sort, mostly standoffish, not anti social but have trouble approaching people. Now I shoot by myself or with two other guys if they show up on Sunday morning.
Hunting is poor where I live, So. Az. A poor rain year and the area suffered a 90% game die off. Few deer, few rabbits, few quail. They say it'll be two years before huntable numbers will be returned. Other parts of the state have huntable game numbers but I don't want to drive for six hours to hunt squirrels. I did put in for elk up north.

The one match I attended last year with the local club was a bust for me so I don't bother with the club any more. They usually only shoot in the winter months because most of the membership are snowbirds. I'm happy with the way I shoot.

 

[BrownBear]

One point in common for lots of us who are speaking up- Many used to shoot competitively. I put a fair collection bling on the walls in several disciplines with modern guns, but got out of it before taking up muzzleloading. Guys in those circuits freeload a lot of coffee from me these days, but most of the talk is hunting and fishing. Somehow quitting the circuit went hand in hand with taking up muzzleloading for me. Interesting enough, none of those guys give a whit about muzzleloading, even though they're the nuttiest of the gun nuts. Different situations for each of us around the country for sure, but when I moved away from modern guns I moved away from competitive shooting, too.

 

[Stony Broke]

The club I belong to has a match once a month, and two rendezvous as year as well. I have given up the rendezvous game as age has about caught up with me, but shooting matches is a fun game for about any age. The camaraderie is a lot of fun and you meet a lot of really good guys at those matches. I carry a lot of ribbons home with me, but in the end they don't matter as my competition is more a matter of improving my performance that beating others. I love the matches as they often turn into a meeting of friends more than just competition.

 

[Dibbuk]

The club I belong to has two line shoots a month: One for pistol, and one for rifle. There may be one or two people who are all about scores, but for the rest of us, it is all about the community, admiring arms and equipment, and generally enjoying ourselves and each others' company.

 

[davidmc62]

Zonie, has a phrase that I like, frinkle.

When I buy a M/L, I do not frinkle with it. I buy what I need and know the builder knows what he is doing. If it does not fit my needs/desire, I do not need to buy it.

I enjoy line matches and only shoot against my self. I never look at the board until the shoot is over. I keep a record of each target that I shoot and know at the end, how I did. My mentor taught me to shoot better than I did the last time in each match.

Reason that I did the original post is we were talking one evening and wondering why we could not get more new shooters to join us. I have learned a lot reading the responses but have not found any one real answer, but I had a feeling I would not find a singular answer or two.

As long as folks are having fun, that is what is important.

fdf

How many shooters were there this past weekend? How many are locals, vs non locals? Are there non shooting visitors that show up to watch? I'm not a betting man but I bet being in Brady Texas may have something to do with it. That is a long drive from pretty much anywhere in the state.
Was it advertised anywhere other than your notice here on the forum before the weekend? I have never made it out there for a shoot, but hope to some day.

 

[FishDFly]

How many shooters were there this past weekend?--Paid shooters 39, not all shot though.

How many are locals, vs non locals?--One local that I know of.

Are there non shooting visitors that show up to watch?--A few, not sure how many.

but I bet being in Brady Texas--Brady is the home range for the TMLRA and it has a lot camping
spots.

Was it advertised anywhere other than your notice here on the forum before the weekend?--Unfortunately no, only advertising is in the NMLRA Muzzle Blasts magazine. I put a brief note here and on The Texas Hunting Forum in the Muzzle loading section before the shoot. I believe advertising would help.

For those who are interested, the next shoot is Oct 03 to 06. and will be a prize shoot. This past shoot, there was a vendor there with plenty of BP at a fair price and lots of supplies.