Why don

[Rat]

Well that's what I was thinking, the FPE formula only takes weight and velocity into consideration, which would favor the higher velocity. But, as you know, bullet diameter (and nose shape) plays a big part in how a projectile kills...what I call "whompability".

I believe that a thick skirted minnie that outweighs the long .45 calibre slugs (500+) could be driven to equal velocities from a good sound gun...however there would be a penalty to pay in recoil from the bigger gun.

I turned the base plug down in the big 600 grain minnie mould I have, (perhaps it was a 580 before I did that?) and it seems to be fine with 120 grain loads which I have shot in the past but don't plan to do again. However if I had a reason such as a grizz hunt or African game I would not hesitate to put 110 grains under it.

Obviously with equal (or close) velocity and bullet weights the .45 would range out further and retain more energy at very long ranges...but within 150 yards I bet the .58 would WHOMP harder!!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it anyhow.



I believe the 60-70 grain service charge took economy of powder and recoil heavily into consideration.

Rat

 

[JohnTheGreek]

Our buffalo were slightly larger than your kudu, our elk about the size of your eland ... Our grizzly have teeth and claws and weigh in about the same as a lion.

This is, of course, true only in a highly peculiar realm of absolutely starving N.A. buffalo, prehistorically large elk, and lions that have somehow been too close to nuclear power plants! The sight of a 2000 pound Kudu, a 2200 pound elk, or 1000 pound lion as described above gets my trigger finger itchy but only in my dreams!

Boer,

You might save yourself a bit of trouble deciding and just call up Holland and Holland directly. They will most likely be able to rummage through their records and tell you what sorts of calibre, bbl length, and twist combinations they used when producing various frontloaders. They may even have the average figures readily available. This way, you get something that not only works but is also historically correct. The builder of my 8 bore has done this and H&H was apparently very helpful. As an aside, having been there and done that on your continent and mine, I have a hard time believing a patched 50 calibre roundball or .45 conical will not cleanly take wildebeeste. Zebra and certainly Eland may warrant something with more punch but not a lot more. I believe Baker was partial to the 10 bore....this would make for a whole new sort of springbok shooting hey!

Hope this helps.

John

P.S. Depending on what you need and when you need it, I may be able to help you out one of these days. I go back and forth to the U.S. a few times a year and am itching to get back down south in this hemisphere. Got a line on any good opportunities for Hippo?

 

[faw3]

I got lost the skirt was on a what ? I shoot a Volunteer 451 maxies in the 450 to 550 range , it shows 1254 fps at 100 yds and 1700 foot pounds energy 130 grs load like the witworth it would flip a man over at 500 yds does anyone need more than that/thats 2f pyrodex rs shows to be 1500 and 1800 at 100 yds.(490 gr lyman) ive got a 550 but dont remember who made it but think it could take most anything down at 100 to 200 yds( with my poor eyes I put a 8x24 on this rifle,works just fine. :front:

 

[lone hunter]

Boer,
About 20 years ago,I bought a couple rifle barrels from a fella in Montana, orrion barrels, I think. Would love to buy a couple more but can't seem to locate him. I bought them to replace the generic shoot every thing barrels on both my 54 cal.T/C rifles. Iam not inclined to get involved with ballistics and such, just told him I wanted to shoot conicals at elk. He was highly recommended, so I trusted his judgement. He set me up with a 1 in 35 twist on a 36inch barrel. I shoot 430gr. maxi-balls with 100gr. pyro. This set up works for me. Dumps elk on a reguar basis out to the 150 yards you mentioned. Every year I am amazed at the effect this setup has on bucks. Just works for me, may not for others. Good luck.

 

[jimbo15563]

Lone Hunter,

I've been looking for Orion myself, but have had no success. The contact information I have for Jerry Cunningham is:

Orion Rifle Barrel Co.
RR#2, 137 Cobler Village
Kalispell, Mt. 59901
406-257-5649

Unfortunately, the Phone number no longer works.

I'm also looking for a fast-twist .54 with which to shoot conicals for the underhammer I'm having built (see Jimbo's Underhammer).

I have been in contact with Mr. Ed Rayl:

W. E.Rayl
Box 91
Gassaway WV 26624
304-364-8269

He quoted me a price of $115 plus shipping for a 1" to 7/8"inch tapered round, 32 " long, 1:36 twist. His lead time is 4 months and he appears willing to build any configuration that the customer wants.

Jimbo

 

[lone hunter]

Jimbo,

Yep thats the guy, same information I have. If I remember right, and Iam pretty sure I don't, the barrel cost $200 for the blank and then it cost me another $200 to get it blued, tapped, and threaded. Did one for my son also. Don't know if I need a new barrel but the lands are wearing down. Still kills elk though. I'll do a search, if I find any information I will let you know.

 

[Cap'n ted]

Boer,

You have some great assets in this regard in the South African International muzzleloading rifle team. Those members have good experience in using black powder rifles for hunting in your country.

On my trip last summer, I found the South African muzzleloaders to be very congenial and helpful in discussing such matters.

I found my .58 PRB flintlock worked well in taking impala, wildebeeste, waterbuck, and kudu. Because it is not possible to travel with black powder, I used a South African equivalent. The results speak for themselves. I found the 110 grain load to be most effective.

I am currently working on a .58 conical rifle using a 700+ grain conical that should stabilize in the 1:48 twist at 1300 fps. Should be fun working up the loads.

Cap'n Ted

 

[Boer]

A 700gr slug @ 1300fps, that will kick like what?

 

[BrownBear]

Speaking on behalf of my light 50-140 Sharps, you can rattle your teeth at 1100 fps. In shotgun terms, 700 grains is the equivalent of roughly 1 5/8 ounces of shot. Push that at 1300 fps and you're in the recoil realm of a 3 1/2-inch 12 gauge load, but with much heavier powder charges. Lots will depend on the design, weight and fit of the gun, but I bet you'll know when it goes off.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Well, you will definitely know something went up the spout, but a lot depends on stock shape and weight. It should be manageable in a ten pound gun I would think.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Track of the Wolf used to carry Orion barrels and might still have some in stock.