Why ffffg prime?

[bshultz]

I"ve used 3f and 4f and have not noticed any difference. :imo: :m2c: :results:

 

I, like the old timers, load and prime from the same horn. ffffg and priming horns are a relatively modern thing. I typically shoot and prime with fffg. When I have tried ffffg I didn't notice any difference in ignition. I have yet to try ffg, but will soon.

 

Wow! A lot has been said since I went to sleep last night. flash_in_the_pan, opinions and clarifying facts never offend me, I like to think we are all friends here and I will always value your opinion and nuggets of information as I do everyone else's. Bushwhacker, didn't you say you use fffg in your .62? I guess it's a smoothbore but who can vouch for fffg in a .62 rifle? When my can of ffg is gone (soon) I might give fffg a try with a reduced charge of say 85-90 grains or so. Anyone else feed their .62 rifles fffg?

 

[jim gray]

When you switch to 3F for the primary charge reduce about 25-30% to start. You can work up from there.

 

[tg]

I know several veteran shooters who use stout loads of 3f in their heavy breeched .62 rilfes with good results.

 

[rootnuke]

On page 160 of The Art of Building a PA Rifle it states that ffg is for .45 cal. and larger, on page 161 it goes on to say that ffffg is used "almost" exclusively for priming.

Is what you guys are saying, throw the ff and ffff two powders out the window and just use fff for both?

It says on the same page 160 that using fffg in large cal. rifles adds breech presure beyond the recommended levels. :shocking:

I have a .54cal rifle.

What say you? :hmm:

 

[Twisted_1in66]

When I got my .50 cal Pennsylvania flintlock longrifle, I tried FFg as the load and the prime, because that's what I had left over from my inline. The lock on my rifle is pretty small and only takes a 5/8" flint. Man, did I get the phsssssttttttttttttttttBOOM with it. Of course, this was using the Pyrodex RS that I had for the inline. Sparks would consistently ignite the powder, but it was a real slow burn.

I had a small amount of "real" blackpowder (GOEX) in FFFg that I had used for my 45 cal Kentucky percussion pistol. So, I tried that in the pan and got reasonable ignition (still with Pyrodex FFg equivalent in the main charge). Now, I just use GOEX FFFg as both the main charge and the prime and it works great. Started using just a little prime on the outside half of the pan instead of filling the pan all the way across, and ignition is almost instantaneous - no discernable delay.

The horn I bought to use as a priming horn has never seen FFFFg. I fill it with FFFg and now call it my "day" horn.
::

 

[brushbuster]

ever since i got into flinters ,all i ever used was fffg to prime ,even though my pan primer is a little finiky with fffg i havent found the perfect load yet but i have not had any slow ignition problems as a matter of fact i plan to use fffg exclusively in my .45 and.50 flinters

 

Rootnuke,

I have two .54 caliber rifles, and have shot so much FFFg out of both of them it isn't funny. I just recently bought some FFg because the FFFg would shoot out of my cavernous touch hole on my GPR. I just replaced that liner with a new one that is not drilled out to 1/4" :haha:, and would now shoot FFFg in it again no problem. As long as you reduce your charge by 10-15% compared to the FFg, you shouldn't have any pressure problems in your .54 using FFFg. And... if you do, you can use the same powder for both priming and loading no problem.

 

[jim gray]

Logically, it seems that given equal volumes of 2F and 3F, you would have more 3F by weight due to the smaller particles packing more densely. In addition to that smaller grains will burn faster as well. So if you change rfrom 2F to 3F, you should start with a greatly reduced charge and work up an accurate load from there. Just remember that the listed maximum load for 2F is reduced accordingly.

The manual that came with my trade rifle list the maximum load for a .490 roundball as 90 grains of 2F or 70 grains of 3F. For a 370 grain maxi-ball the maximum charges are 80gr. and 60 gr. respectively. These loads seem to be a bit conservative for maximum loads, but are potent enough to be effective on deer. The manual that came with my GPR and is for all LYman MLs. lists the maximum loads for RBs as 110 gr. of 2F or 90 gr. of 3F.

And on the page before the load listings it says this about 3F "....It is also popular for all small caliber rifles up to and including .40 caliber. When FFFFG is not available, FFFG may be used to prime a flint lock" The GPR manual has the exact says "....for all small caliber rifles up to and including 50 caliber....":hmm:

 

For the correct powder charge everyone should go to Goex web site and use THEIR recomendation for THEIR powder. After all THEY are the one's who make it. IMO
ANd NEVER exceed your gun makers/ barrel maker recommendations either.

Here is the site addy:

http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html



Woody

 

[Stumpkiller]

Is what you guys are saying, throw the ff and ffff two powders out the window and just use fff for both?

Throw the Goex FFg my way. I used it for prime and main charge in my .66 musket for 15 years and intend to use just that in my .54 flintlock rifle. ::

You never see a Bess shooter with a sissipated priming horn. And longhunters had enough to worry about without having two powder supplies to keep a store of. With a Large Siler & larger you don't need a special priming powder. In most cases you can use the same powder as the main charge, whether that is FFg or FFFg. If your lock or powder is weak you may need to use finer granulations.

Throw the Pyrodex out completely.

 

[jim gray]

Stumpkiller,

As far as I can tell choosing between 3F and 4F is not a performance issue, but a matter of personal preferrence. Is 2F less reliable in average locks then or is it okay unless the lock is of inferior quality and strength?

I would like to try 2F in my .58 caliber (when it comes) if that's feasible.

 

[bbuck]

As of yet.....the only diferance in 3fg or 4fg in the priming pan that i've seen was in my friends brown bess 3rd modle 75. cal. I normaly used 4fg in the pan but ran out and improvised with 3fg the same that i used as main charge and found fire and flash faster. On my new tennesse poor boy I have not tryed 3fg in the pan yet but.....i'll be on the bills range on sunday and will let ya know the results after
:hmm: :hmm: :m2c: eace:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Stumpkiller,

As far as I can tell choosing between 3F and 4F is not a performance issue, but a matter of personal preferrence. Is 2F less reliable in average locks then or is it okay unless the lock is of inferior quality and strength?

I would like to try 2F in my .58 caliber (when it comes) if that's feasible.

Personal preference to be sure, but less yours than your flintlock's.

:imo: FFg is less moisture & fouling sensitive in a pan than either FFFg or FFFFg in hunting situations. If you're firing every minute, it doesn't matter as much. But if you're firing two or three times a day for squirrels, or at the end of a day-long deer hunt, give me FFg and a large flint/frizzen.

I had a Dixie Tenessee .32 that used 5/8" flints and was a pretty enemic sparker. That rifle I used FFFFg for priming. When I used FFFg I would just as often get a "klack-Pow" as a "ka-Pow". For whatever reason, in that gun the larger kernels didn't work as well.

My Bess threw a shower of sparks with a 9/8 size flint that looked like a photo of a party sparkler. 10X the sparks of the 5/8 size Dixie. It was just a much better made & much stronger lock all around. I never had a misfire in a hunting situation with that piece that I can remember. Always used FFg. It also had a big 'ol 5/64" vent.

Like with most things flintlock, you have to find whet works with YOUR rifle. I had a T/C Hawken that never loved me (my first flinter), but I used cut flints and didn't have a site like this to beg for help. Even with FFFFg that one had a 75% reliable lock.

I'd recommend giving FFg a try in your .58 at the range. If you get reliable flashes you're set. Always nice to simplify your requirements.

My .54 has a Jim Chambers Early Germanic lock, which is larger than a Large Siler. I'm planning on feeding it just FFg and will be disappointed if it doesn't thrive on that.

 

[Bushwhacker]

Bushwhacker, didn't you say you use fffg in your .62? I guess it's a smoothbore but who can vouch for fffg in a .62 rifle?

My 62 is a smoothie. Our group all shoot 62 cal smoothies, a few have 54 and 58 rifled also. It take less powder if you use FFF and also you get LOT'S less fowling. My smoothie seems to like 65 grains FFF. I use the "KISS" method (Keep It Simple Stupid)
:redthumb:

 

[halfstock]

:agree: :master:Yep this old grouch uses fffg in a .54 and it works great. Bushwhacker has been shootin them blame hand howitzers a long time so I gotta go along with him. :results: :thumbsup:

 

[Bushwhacker]

There is no documentation of priming horns being used. They only carried 1 poyder horn. Personally, I shoot only FFF even in my snoothie

 

[Muggsy]

I've always used FFg for main charge and priming in my Charleville and my .62 fowler and have constant success in both. In reenactments, the 18th C method of priming/loading was out of the same rolled cartridge- so what went in the pan also went down the barrel. In fact- I once was given an old can of Fg that someone had in their house (for what I have not idea) and I used that in my Charley and it worked too! It was like pouring gravel down the barrel, but it worked fine for reenacting (I didn't use it for live firing).

:results:

 

[whiskeyjoe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall reading somewheres that 1,2,and 3f powder has a kind of glaze that is applied when it is manufactured, whereas 4f does not, thereby making 4f more susceptible to moisture.
Another reason I use 3f for load and prime is after recently purchasing Long Tom ( my poor boy)I was out hunting and walking along a windy ridge I noticed that all of my prime was being blown clean out of the pan. Not having a file on hand to make a closer fit between pan and frizzen, I just used 3f and it worked just fine. Been using it ever since.