Why is it?

[Britsmoothy]

When watching YouTube videos of pistols and rifles, some smooth bores too they hammer the patched ball into the barrel?
It looks so painful and potentially gun damaging.

It must put thousands off having a closer look!

B.

 

[Grenadier1758]

There are far too many people who have bought into the notion that a tight patch and ball combination is good for accuracy. This has been fed by some historical documentation of early musketeers using oversize balls with no patching needing a mallet and short starter to load. I also recall that Ned Roberts in his book also recommended using the tight patch and ball configuration and used the short starter and mallet. So, based on a lot of paper research, many of these relatively new muzzleloading rifle shooters want to post how to do it and go to excess in their videos.

I use a tight fitting ball and patch for my match participation. Those loads are far easier to load with a short starter. However I don't need a mallet, just a light push with my hand.

Duelist1954 has a number of good videos on shooting rifles and talks about fit of patch and ball in the bore. Here is his video on a 30 cal flintlock. Yes, he uses a short starter with a slap of his hand.

Shooting the 40 Cal Flintlock

 

[Heelerau]

I mostly use a smaller ball and thicker patch and just seat with the butt of my patch knife, cut then ram home with rod. I have used tight patch combinations and just push in with a short starter, never have to use a mallet. I am in agreance with you both !

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Starting is a function of hand strength too. My daughters use mallets where I don't need them. They don't mind the extra weight and hasle since it affords them a measure of independence.

I have often heard of the holy grail of starting balls with just thumb pressure. I have never been able to achieve that without suffering accuracy loss. If there are secrets to it I'd love to know them.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Frankly, I do not believe a palm bruising start contributes to fine accuracy. Too much chance to deform the soft lead ball. On the other side of things, all that is necessary is to seal the bore. When ignition occurs, isn't that soft lead ball whacked from behind by the sudden acceleration and swaged wider into the bore anyway? IIRC the process is called obturation. If that does occur, particularly with the magnum load crowd, why is the mallet required to start the ball?

I have seen with my own experience that some rifling is just too shallow to properly grip any PRB combination, but a tighter one probably better because the ball is swaged at the muzzle into what little rifling there is. But even my Zoli Zouave shot great with a patched round ball that could be started with firm thumb pressure.

Then there are the guys who feel the need to bounce the ram rod off the seated ball with such force that a steel ram road bounces almost out of the barrel. That ball is certainly hammered into a good fit with the bore.

 

[Bent Sight]

I have to give the ball starter a sharp rap when starting the patched ball in the muzzle of my Renegade. Or I can start the patched ball in the muzzle by leaning my body weight on the starter, but I find it easier to give the starter a rap. Once the ball is started and the long end of the ball starter is placed in the muzzle, it does not require as much pressure to move the ball down the bore. The more lube I have on the patch the easier the patched ball starts.


I am new to black powder shooting and I am still getting things sorted out. Accuracy is acceptable at 50 meters.

How much pounding is too much? My hand isn't bruised after a 40 shot range session. How much lube is too much?

 

[Rifleman1776]

Frankly, I do not believe a palm bruising start contributes to fine accuracy. Too much chance to deform the soft lead ball. On the other side of things, all that is necessary is to seal the bore. When ignition occurs, isn't that soft lead ball whacked from behind by the sudden acceleration and swaged wider into the bore anyway? IIRC the process is called obturation. If that does occur, particularly with the magnum load crowd, why is the mallet required to start the ball?

I have seen with my own experience that some rifling is just too shallow to properly grip any PRB combination, but a tighter one probably better because the ball is swaged at the muzzle into what little rifling there is. But even my Zoli Zouave shot great with a patched round ball that could be started with firm thumb pressure.

Then there are the guys who feel the need to bounce the ram rod off the seated ball with such force that a steel ram road bounces almost out of the barrel. That ball is certainly hammered into a good fit with the bore.

Zimmer, I must respond to yer comments above. Yes, no, maybe and sometimes.
I'm a member of the tight fit crowd for max accuracy. For many years I used a .457" ball in the Douglas barrel of my half-breed .45 cal. target rifle. (there is a story in how I started using those, but I'll save for another time) As did my wife in her similar but Seneca based half-breed rifle. That combo won many matches. Hard to load but very accurate. With time I haven't shot at many big or 'important' events and perfect 'X' results became less of a passion to me. I dropped to a .445" ball for target shooting. Once I even won a 100 yard bench match shooting against genuine heavy bench rifles. Another time, at my club, I failed to bring .445" balls and used .440" balls. Great group, won the blue ribbon on the 100 yard match. And if you ever get this game figgered out, let me know. :wink: :v

 

[crockett]

I think stocks that crack at the wrist or toe plates that chip out- could have been from hammering down a load.
Fouling makes it hard to reload. On some conicals it is essential to swab between shots.

 

[Tom Compton]

I do use a tight ball n patch combo. On my .36 GM barrel it’s a .355 ball w .025” denim patch. Pop it in w the nubbin and cut. Some times I use the short starter but often just use the ram rod from muzzle all the way down (a few short strokes at first).

My .54 GM requires the short starter to load the target and first hunting load w .535 w same .025 patch. Arthritis and old injuries often make slapping the short starter very uncomfortable so a leather mallet is utilized. Following shots of the big game gun loaded in the field get a .530 ball and .018 patch which still provides “minute of deer lung” accuracy.

All short starters an nubbins are concave to match the ball contour. No ram rod bouncing.

A proper crown on the muzzle helps.

 

[M. De Land]

I don't ever remember seeing a bench rest shooter using a loose patch and I can see the difference on target when I do so.
By loose I mean one that can be started without a short starter.

 

[Tom Compton]

Youtube is a very useful tool but let the viewer beware- there is no requirement that posters be qualified. In too many cases these are made by those who are under or totally misinformed. Then there are those who in 10 years get one month of experience 120 times.

 

[SgtMaj65]

I always use a ball starter, but since I broke a hickory ramrod off and into the base of my thumb on my dominant hand three months ago, it's too painful to use my palm to start the PRB. Plus, I have a bit of arthritis in both hands now, and boy, that is a strength sapper I never thought about when I was younger and didn't worry about hand strength. So, I found a 6-inch hard rubber craft mallet to help get 'er started, then I can ram it on the charge with my heavy brass range rod. I like to have a fair amount of resistance when I'm seating the ball, but not to the point that it's all I can do to ram it onto the Goex ffg. I would never, ever bounce a ramrod onto a PRB to get it to seat. I use .015 linen or .018 ticking patches with TOW mink oil for a lube, and swab between range shots with my Renegade .50 cal. :2

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

"Frankly, I do not believe a palm bruising start contributes to fine accuracy"
False dichotomy. It is not like using a starter means abusing your palm. Sometimes you just need that oopmh to get it past the muzzle.

To further distinguish the fine points of muzzleloading: There are perhaps 3 phases of loading a ball into a barrel. 1) starting the ball 2) ramming the ball and 3) seating the ball.

If I could change anything I would love to make starting the ball easier. Once started I never have trouble ramming or seating. It is just getting the ball past the crown that is difficult.

Just pushing on it with my bare thumb is painful and most often unsuccesful. Once started the patch-n-ball ram and seat with relative ease.

 

[hanshi]

I use tight loads for accuracy but also for the bore cleaning they accomplish. I have rheumatoid arthritis and my hands are painful; it doesn't take much to bruise and/or hurt. I have to use a short starter for these loads but do not need, or want, to pound them in. I usually "push" the short starter as palm smacking it hurts. I also will use NO load I can't seat with the hickory underbarrel rod. It takes a bit of crown polishing on the rifle to make it easier to seat these loads; and that is easily done with emery cloth/sand paper and a thumb.

 

[Britsmoothy]

:hatsoff:

B.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I like a "snug" load, as opposed to the more drastic "tight" load. Does that make sense folks?

LD

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Hanshi,

I confused. You say seating can be made easier by polishing the crown. By seating do you mean starting the ball in the muzzle? I always thought seating referred to the final step of getting the ball firmly planted on top of the powder. I don't see how a polished muzzle would help.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

I have a pretty snug start on my lyman 54 gpr. I'm using .535" ball, green n white pillow ticking from dixon's muzzleloading. .016" advertised and .007-.008 compressed. I use 1 in 7 ballistol solution dried onto the patches. I Couple that with 70grs of FFFg goex. I give it a medium one slap to get it started, then the short starter is not hard to push. I do wipe between shots with all my guns.

I do use the ramrod to tamp it down until it starts to bounce.

My renegade is acceptable for wooded lot hunting. I'm using the same patches with .530" balls. However, they are a beast to start. That gun needs more work to be accurate. I'm thinking a shallower patch. That will be this summer's range work detail.

MY custom 45 percussion gun loads much like the lyman GPR. I use the same patches with .440" ball. The previous owner did well at woodswalks with .445" ball and .010 precut paches from ox-yoke. The lube used was 3 or 4 drops of hoppes #9. Again, like my other good shooters, some effort, but not brutal or repetative strokes needed.