Why is this 32 crockett so difficult to clean?

[Ironoxide]

Ok guys, bore scope s showing like three rings. Furthest in is the clean out port screw area. Measured with my range rod, no patch, it goes to about .25" of the breech plug seam on the barrel. So what have i learned? Well i cannot clean a gun very well says the bore scope. Use a smaller jag, be more gentele shoving the range rod down the barrel are a couple of things. But i do not think this is solving my problem of confidence in swabbing and cleaning. So i do not think this is a patten breech. It is more like a TC. So i am thinking pull the breech plug and do a better, more through review, smoothing, cleaning. Other suggestions? Go for it?View attachment 87766View attachment 87767

I recommend to definitely not pull the breach.

There is a lot that can go wrong with this.

My 38 cal squirrel rifle (bought used) was similar. It does have a sort of patent breech (maybe 5mm deep). I had no confidence in it at all until I did the following.

I used a ball puller on its own in twisting motion few times to loosen up the crud that built up there for few decades.

I removed the barrel. I removed the nipple and I plugged its hole with a wooden dowel. Then I filled the barrel with soapy ballistol water for half a day.

Then I took a bucket half filled with room temperature water, added some dish washing liquid and a little ballistol to it. I unplugged the nipple hole. I dropped the dirty water from the barrel down the sink. Then I used just a jag on the ramrod with the barrel breech side in the bucket to pump the water up and down for few minutes. Watch out. The water will shoot out of the nozzle making a mess. Better to do it outdoors or in a garage. Definitely not in your living room.

Once the patent breech id perfectly clean I flood the barrel in and out with wd40 and blow off the excess with compressed air. Then I take an undersized jag. I moisten a patch with a little oil (usually ballistol, neatsfoot etc) and run it up and down the barrel.

Before shooting fire a cap off and run a clean patch to dry the barrel (with an under size jag).

When shooting, do not, I repeat because it is very important, do not run the cleaning patch down to the breech. Grab your cleaning rod so there is 2 inches space to the breech when it stops while cleaning. I use the loading mark as reference.

This way I recently won a local contest in 26 shots with no misfire. The rules of this contest prohibited cleaning so I was using a slightly thinner patch. However, when I shoot at the range I swab between shots stopping 2 inches before reaching the breech and I almost never have misfires.

Another important thing is to not swab with too much liquid on the cleaning patch. Even if you send a dry one next, the liquid can get into the breech and you'll be putting powder under the nipple to fire...

Small caliber muzzleloaders are some of the beat fun you can get in black powder shooting. They have low recoil. They are economical to run etc. But they need to be cleaned properly or one will get discouraged very quickly.

Edit: Mooman76 reminded me I also used a soft oversized brush to clean the breech. The brush is made with a wire that goes somewhat into the patent area so it helps a little, but the bucket treatment is much better.

Also if you don't pack the fouling and leave it in the breech for a long time you don't need to repeat the bucket treatment every time you shoot. Putting some cleaning soapy water in the barrel slill in the gun, removing the nipple and directing the hole in the safe direction. Then pumping with ramrod to shoot the water out the nipple channel works for me. I only repeat the bucket treatment after z large number of shots or if I have misfires.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I've noticed my .32 will get a little tight with a cleaning patch down by the breech, maybe about 3 inches north if it, after a bunch of shots. It only takes a couple of soaked patches to swab it out though. After that little too resistance until I've fired a bunch more shots..

 

[Ohio Rusty]

I use a smaller borebrush and wrap the patch around that. The patch cannot come off the borebrush being inpaled on all the metal fingers.
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[jdw276]

I've noticed my .32 will get a little tight with a cleaning patch down by the breech, maybe about 3 inches north if it, after a bunch of shots. It only takes a couple of soaked patches to swab it out though. After that little too resistance until I've fired a bunch more shots..

I was trying to swab between shots yesterday for accuracy and load testing purposes. First shot, then run a damp, not wet patch, and grrrrr. Ramrod stuck at the range. Worse than pulling a dryball. Yea i have done that. Shot again. Swab, stuck. Ok, getting very irritated now as i had forgotten how tempermental this gun is about cleaning at the breech and stuck ramrods. You would think i moght learn someday.

 

[Apollo55]

I second the bore scope idea, just to see what is going on.

Regarding jag tightness I pretty much never use the corect caliber jags with any of my muzzleloaders. Specially when using a wooden ramrod. I have a lathe to turn them down slightly. If I didn't I would chuck a jag in an electric drill and use a file to make it slightly undersized. With my 58 cal I even use a 54 jag (swabbing patches are folded for a slightly thicker fit).

If you decide you really want to polish the bore, I recently used 0000 steel wool wrapped around a worm. The ramrod chucked in an electric drill. It worked fine for me. I'm not sure that is the best way, but it worked fine for me.

That is a dumb thing to do, wrap steel wool abrasive around a worm and twirl it in the bore with a electric drill!! You could seriously damage rifling at least knock corners off, there for ruining your investment and accuracy. Why not either take to a gunsmith that has a bore scope. Or contact Traditions, I had problem with Kentucky flint kit and they were very helpful!

 

[Ironoxide]

That is a dumb thing to do, wrap steel wool abrasive around a worm and twirl it in the bore with a electric drill!! You could seriously damage rifling at least knock corners off, there for ruining your investment and accuracy. Why not either take to a gunsmith that has a bore scope. Or contact Traditions, I had problem with Kentucky flint kit and they were very helpful!

No its not a dumb thing to do. Steel wool is not an abrasive if you use it on something harder than it or of comparable hardness. What we're doing with it is burnishing at worst and polishing at best. Pedersoli barrels (this is a Pedersoli I'm talking about) are made of 30crmo4 steel (closest us equivalent 4130 chromoly). Even annealed its hardness is almost double that of low grade carbon steel. There is no way to "knock corners" rifling with 0000 steel wool (at least with a Pedersoli barrel) that's made with low grade carbon steel. How do I know? Because I've used it and I looked at the resulting rifling.

There are some barrel manufacturers using common mild steel or high lead content so called free machining steel. Those steels may be softer than steel wool. I would advise caution if you have one of those barrels (there is a list of alloys used by barrel makers online). However, even with those barrels if your rifling is so rough due to corrosion that it affects cleaning using 0000 steel wool on it is only going to improve it.

Also, I believe I clearly said I used a cordless drill at few hundred rpm constantly moving it up and down for few passes. We're not talking a wall powered one running at few k rpm sitting in one place in the barrel.

Edit: One more thing, once you do it, you'll be able to recognise barrels that had it done by a polished look on the rifling. Would I do it on my Pedersoli Sharps that came from factory with a mirror finish laped rifling? No. How about an 50 year old barrel that looks rough and cleans with difficulty? Yes, definitely. BTW, that 50 year old barrel is one of my most accurate now.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I was trying to swab between shots yesterday for accuracy and load testing purposes. First shot, then run a damp, not wet patch, and grrrrr. Ramrod stuck at the range. Worse than pulling a dryball. Yea i have done that. Shot again. Swab, stuck. Ok, getting very irritated now as i had forgotten how tempermental this gun is about cleaning at the breech and stuck ramrods. You would think i moght learn someday.

If you're getting the rod stuck after every shot, then there is definitely something wrong. Not to he smart, bit have you checked the size of your cleaning patches? I've had to cut patches down to maybe 1 inch or less square to get them to go down smoothly.

 

[jdw276]

If you're getting the rod stuck after every shot, then there is definitely something wrong. Not to he smart, bit have you checked the size of your cleaning patches? I've had to cut patches down to maybe 1 inch or less square to get them to go down smoothly.

Yea, i cut mine pretty small. Rather have em fall off than get the ramrod stuck. If i push the range rod to about .25" before the breech barrel seam, no issues. PusH it that last little bit and you can almost feel it.. anymore and it is stuck. It is not a big move, less than .5" and closer to 3/8's. I bought some smaller jags today, gonna call traditions and see if i got any other options. I think the smaller jags will help a lot. Going to experiment a bit since i know the barrel is clean, got other jags, got all my patch materials here at the house, tools and just find what works for me. Now stuck to me is where i have to use two hands, a loud grunt and a cussword to get the range rod out. It comes out eventually. For some folks this may be a normal loading procedure but that is to much work for this old guy. Gonna play the next few days. I know i can find the right combo. I have several other rifles and none of them have this issue. I will get there. Thanks all for the suggestions. I am focused on getting this right and working for me.

 

[Springerpanhead]

Bore diameter?
Patch grabbing, range rod stickin, Breech?

I can clean any rifle i got in 10 minutes or so. Both full stock and half stock styles. But this crockett with that patch grabbing, ramrod stickin breech makes me take 45 minutes or more and i do not know if i got it clean to prevent that red stuff from showing up. I am afraid of that breech for one big thing. Getting my range rod stuck is not on my bucket list to do more than the last 4 times.

I do not even feel comfortable swabbing at the range from that range rod grabbing breech. I have seen a ramrod go down range but would like to avoid my range rod following it down range.

You guys got any tricks or do i have to get over my fear of the patch grabbiin breech......

I have a 32 Pedersoli that had the same problem also inconsistent firing.. The problem is a stinking useless patent breech so close to bore diameter. Pulled the breech plug and reamed it to bore diameter. No more problems cleaning and no more misfires. IMO any minuscule ignition or ballistic advantage the patent breech is supposed to offer is more than negated by the PITA it creates when cleaning.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I'm wondering if you're getting things hung up in that patent breech. Does a .32 crocket even have a patented breech? That could be the issue too.

 

[Lynn davis]

I have a Crockett that I built from a kit. I ordered from frontier muzzleloading a bottle of shoot out and some of there patch lube. After about 30 yards I was loading very easily. I shot maybe 50 rounds that day with shoot out only.That was three years ago today when I go to the range I get maybe 30 rounds before I have to swa that was three years ago today when I go to the range I get maybe 30 rounds before I have to swabb The board. After cleaning my barrel looks like a mirror.

 

[TreeMan]

I use a cleaning kit for an AR-15 with an added section of cleaning rod attached for my 32s. Wrap a patch around a .223 bore brush. Much easier than using muzzleloading jags, loading rods or a range rod. Have never lost a patch down the bore.

 

[Carbon 6]

You guys got any tricks or do i have to get over my fear of the patch grabbiin breech......

Yes.
Aside from a smaller rod, Smaller, or thinner patches and reducing the jag diameter.

First question is: What are you swabbing with ? (liquid)
I prefer M.A.P., and a small squirt down the bore before swabbing works wonders.

Try this:
Only swab part way down the barrel, then flip or replace the patch. Then go almost all the way down and reverse direction. Fouling is often the culprit here. If it's grabby near the bottom put on a clean wet patch.

Play around with this technique until it works for your gun.

 

[jdw276]

Making some progress for me at least. Bought a Pro Shot range rod. I think they are 3/16's, 8/32 threads for sure. Made a bore guide from one of those doctors office ear light guides, works well in the small 32 cal. Started with a .25 jag by pro shot, 1, 1"×1" cleaning patch lubed with ballistol. Pulled right off in the breech. I am pretty sure there is a burr or two in there. No biggy, used a ball puller and came right out. Left ball puller on and added another same size patch all the way and back from breech, added another and another, total four layers. all same result and a cleaner bore for sure. Took a 22 cal patch holder with the hole in it, 3"×3" patch with ballistol, all the way and back no issues. I usually swab with a mix of ballistol and water.

Next up is get a 30 cal jag from pro shot, so the same test with larger patches and grabbing. It will tell me where enough is enough in terms of jag size and where to avoid this patch grabbing, rod jamming issue.

I am making progress, getting more confident, to do is get a 32 jag in 8/32 thread to push the ball down. Then i got a dedicated range rod for my 32 with appropriate tips and no rod jammin or breech pulling. I am sure there are burrs down there but getting there. Can always use my 1/4" range rod in 10/32 thread as a back up. Only issue so far is the Pro Shot red handle turns with the rifling so to turn the jag, retighten stuff while in the bore you have to twist the rod itself. A sacrifice i will make with this progress. Thanks all.

 

[hanshi]

I had no problems cleaning my Crockett and it was as simple as cleaning any other caliber. Obviously there is a burr at the breech end and that is most likely the problem. Using 0000 steel wool as previously suggested to polish the breech is a good idea and something I've done in the past with no damage.