Why not remove the breech plug????

[JCKelly]

Not so hard to remove the breech plug on an original muzzle loader. But it tends to wear out the threads. I'm a little embarrassed to say this but my ancestors removed the plug from Great-Grandpa's rifle to clean it. By the time Dad got hold of it the threads were so worn that it spit a bit of fire. Now it was not loaded with 100gr FFFFg as some would today. Anyway Dad "fixed" it by wrapping solder wire in the threads to seal it. Shot a pretty good group at his rifle club in Pittsburgh, too.
Anyway I would suggest you not remove the plug. When I was a tad younger I made, and breeched, several rifles from plank of wood and unbreeched barrel. I did engrave a line on plug and barrel to show where the correct fit was.
Only time I unbreeched one of my rifles was when I decided I had more memories of loading than shooting. Yep. Unscrewed the breech and out came powder, ball, powder, ball.

 

[CVA Enthusiast]

Back in the eighties I had a CVA rifle wth a horrible bore, but it shot just fine. I wanted to take it apart to see exactly why the bore was so rough. People at work told me not to remove the breech plug. They said "it's not supposed to be removed", thay said it was "made so that it could not be removed". They said it would "void the warranty". I bought it used from a pawn shop in Provo, so I knew that was BS. I removed the breech, looked through the barrel and put it back together then shot it for about ten years. Made a nice set of target sights for it and sold it at a gunshow. I've always been like that as were many men of my generation. We grew up knowing we could do things. When I was a kid every toy was taken apart. Not always put back together correct but it was all about learning. My Jeep is torn apart right now waiting for parts. Not everyone should take a gun apart. People who are incapable of taking a gun apart (and don't know what they're talking about) should not be telling others what to do. But of course they will, and so the dumbing down of America continues.

Shame is your not not to far off base, I was "TOLD" never to remove also. As I stated there are models that do not have removable plugs, Most however do. thing is not so much dumbing down Americans more like making FAT LAZY and not willing to research. But as I said I am a Mad dog, lone wolf and will never accept a Questionable answer, but alas as an American it is a dying breed. We would rather swallow some ******** over putting in some work.

 

[CVA Enthusiast]

Not so hard to remove the breech plug on an original muzzle loader. But it tends to wear out the threads. I'm a little embarrassed to say this but my ancestors removed the plug from Great-Grandpa's rifle to clean it. By the time Dad got hold of it the threads were so worn that it spit a bit of fire. Now it was not loaded with 100gr FFFFg as some would today. Anyway Dad "fixed" it by wrapping solder wire in the threads to seal it. Shot a pretty good group at his rifle club in Pittsburgh, too.
Anyway I would suggest you not remove the plug. When I was a tad younger I made, and breeched, several rifles from plank of wood and unbreeched barrel. I did engrave a line on plug and barrel to show where the correct fit was.
Only time I unbreeched one of my rifles was when I decided I had more memories of loading than shooting. Yep. Unscrewed the breech and out came powder, ball, powder, ball.

As stated some do some do not, MUST RESEARCH BEFORE HAND, but alas I fully disclose and get pack beaten

 

[Celticstoneman]

There is simply little reason to remove a breech plug.

i have a heavy vise and barrel blocks in sizes from 7/8 to 1/14 inches. About ten years ago i Installed a new breech plug for a hunter and had a large hassle getting it to line up. Decades ago i watched as my mentor (an accomplished gunsmith) had a breech plug break at the threads.

A local guy used my vise and blocks to remove the breech plug from his muzzleloader. The plug seized on an attempt at re-assembly. Despite my warning he blamed me for ruining his nice custom rifle.

This is how a class act British gunsmith removes a breech plug:

Muzzle Loader - B.K.Webster Gunsmith Tel:01677 470505 (bkwebstergunsmith.com)

Okie,
Absolutely great link ! I never see text book photos like this. Thanks.
John

 

[deermanok]

Clueless? Why is profanity needed in a post? Is it needed to get your point across? What does the F mean???

I thought it sounded better than stupid. F means whatever you want it to.

 

[Dude]

If we were talking about cars and a poorly running engine, a majority of the answers would be "Do not even think of trying to rebuild it!"

Others would say "If it's running, leave it alone, don't touch it".

...on and on.

I've heard some good reasons for leaving the plug alone and explanations of how it's done and with what tools. Evidently, some are very difficult to remove, some aren't. And even when the threads got worn out (after a very long time and who knows how many removals), the plug didn't blow out, though it did leak. And even then, a simple fix handled the problem.

Yes, it's not a maintenance chore to remove the breech plug. That really wasn't the question. The question wasn't "WHEN is it ok to remove the plug?" Specifically, the question was WHY it shouldn't be removed.

The answer appears to be twofold: 1. Because they can be extremely tight and removal/replacement (without causing damage) requires tools and mechanical aptitude. 2. Frequent removal can loosen the connection.

In the case of the brazed-in plugs - well, yeah, removal requires destroying the plug, so you'd better be ready to make a new one. But just looking at one of them would tell you it aint comin' out. So don't even try.

 

[Brokennock]

5 pages of this tripe in less than 2 full days. Pointless arguing, and belongs in the gun building," or "general muzzleloading" section anyway.

Get well soon Zonie.

 

[FishDFly]

You are so correct.

 

[mooman76]

But he is "Hunting" for the answer.

 

[FishDFly]

Sigh.

 

[CVA Enthusiast]

Not so hard to remove the breech plug on an original muzzle loader. But it tends to wear out the threads. I'm a little embarrassed to say this but my ancestors removed the plug from Great-Grandpa's rifle to clean it. By the time Dad got hold of it the threads were so worn that it spit a bit of fire. Now it was not loaded with 100gr FFFFg as some would today. Anyway Dad "fixed" it by wrapping solder wire in the threads to seal it. Shot a pretty good group at his rifle club in Pittsburgh, too.
Anyway I would suggest you not remove the plug. When I was a tad younger I made, and breeched, several rifles from plank of wood and unbreeched barrel. I did engrave a line on plug and barrel to show where the correct fit was.
Only time I unbreeched one of my rifles was when I decided I had more memories of loading than shooting. Yep. Unscrewed the breech and out came powder, ball, powder, ball.

What tends to wear threads is the decades of neglect, along with the ever popular "I Know What I am Doing" then the plug ends up being cross threaded back in, I have had many in my shop in the atrocious condition, Have a a stag horn barrel mounted to the wall, folks ignored breech plug. As stated some do some do not, MUST RESEARCH BEFORE HAND, but alas I fully disclose and get pack beaten I know like the Maintenance of our rifles most tend to read what they want to. Others survive on the garbage feed them....In the end it is your decision to maintain, follow the herd or bust the mold. I am just as happy with whatever choice you make.

 

[sdilts]

Check out Rice Barrel Co. They sell vise jaws and a breech plug wrench. Best money I've ever spent.

 

[Eric Krewson]

If you build guns removing the breechplug is no big deal, I have only built 5 guns but had the breech plugs in and out countless times.

Then there are senior moment times like the time I thought dryballed my TN rifle, no ball puller in my arsenal would get a hold of the ball. I carried the gun into my shop, pulled the barrel from the stock and pulled the breech plug only to find an empty breech, no ball at all, DUH.

I have two flintlocks from the 70s that a great friend gave me, I have never pulled the breechplugs from these guns and probably never will, there is no need to.

If any of you haven't seen the Rice vice jaws and breech plug tool here they are, they work really well;

 

[ML48]

I didn't "associate all screw ups with the name Bubba...."

How many reasons do you need before you consider it a bad idea ?
I'm simply trying to educate you, ( As are others ). After all you did say " Let'er rip" (guess you weren't ready for reality)
It's a slang dictionary definition created by the gun community, and it's extremely relevant to this topic.



Best of luck on your endeavor.

The name "Bubba" has absolutely nothing to do with this post!! Whoops...you're right, it does have everything to do with this post! I did say "Let'er rip"....just to see how dumb the answers would be. The common sense answers that came up were, "leave it alone", "it wasn't meant to be removed". That's all we needed. But nooooo, like the train that ran out of track at 100 miles an hour.....off the track it went

 

[Flinter 2]

OK, I was being flip in my reply post, in reality I've been a die hard muzzle loader since the late '60's, went flinter a few years later, I've owned and shot allot of smoke poles in my time and never once had to pull a breech plug, I know of a few reasons why someone would have to, and I've avoided them all.
I'm one of those people who has lived long enough to come to believe in old sayings, sayings like "don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you", another is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", it seems to me that because of the pitfalls of setting breech plugs and drilling flash holes, mating flats, and so on pulling a breech plug would be a good thing to avoid.
And the Idea of pulling one every time or even often for cleaning is a good way to insure that you'll be "fixing it until it is broke"

Just something to ponder.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Back when muzzleloading weapons were required for war, self-defense, and to put food on the table, the ability to cut male & female threads as accurately as we are able to do today, was simply not possible.

Therefore, a lot of 18th & 19th Century guns had breech plug threads that by today's standards would be considered unsafe.

However, when the plugs & barrels were new, a tight fit was possible. Eventually, the coarse threads accumulated fouling that corroded the juncture between the breech plug & the barrel. This resulted in an unsafe weapon, which meant that the old breech plug was removed & discarded, the portion of the barrel's breech that was damaged was sawn off, a new breech plug fabricated & installed, the stock & ramrod shortened, the now shorter barrel re-inletted into the shortened stock, barrel underlugs relocated if necessary, the barrel re-pinned to the stock, and the old pin holes filled.

This was a common practice for any practicing gunsmith to do, and thousands of rifles & fowlers were so shortened. Sometimes more than once if a gun had a long lifespan.

As the ability to cut accurate threads became more common, the been to shorten, and re-breech barrels became less frequent. Most modern guns, if properly assembled, should SELDOM, IF EVER, require that their breech plug be removed.

Standard, flint-style, 1-pc breech plugs, if properly installed, should NEVER need removal, except under the most EXTRAORDINARY of circumstances.

Patent breech plugs, flint or percussion, with powder chambers, factory made, should not require removal, unless close examination with a good quality bore scope reveals some kind of factory defect requiring repair to be useable. Like I stated in post #47 about Idaholewis.
Italian & Spanish imported rifles with patent breech plugs have a less than 25% chance of having their breech plug successfully removed so that it may be by re-installed. Most will require shortening the barrel by sawing off the breech plug, & re-breeching the barrel.

 

[panman]

although a machinist this is not in my world of thing i do, but isn't the inline breach plugs made to be removed? if so what makes it less a issue then the traditional?
i am no expert but cutting threads acuretly has been around now rather or not it was done my be some in and of itself but i would assue breach plugs would be fitted use a lathe?
i would use the lathe.
i have a TC that a guy traded me many years ago with a ball stuck in it i was unable to remove it just kept pulling up lead i called Thompson about a breach pluch tool and they said send it to them they would fix it and send it back free of charge so i sent it to them they fixed it but when i got it back the flats are just slighty off i wish i would have just done it myself.
years later i have the tools for the thompson after picking up a .54 with the same issue lucky me i was able to pull that one and did not need to remove the breach.
any way as a machinest i find the topic interesting

 

[Flinter 2]

although a machinist this is not in my world of thing i do, but isn't the inline breach plugs made to be removed? if so what makes it less a issue then the traditional?
i am no expert but cutting threads acuretly has been around now rather or not it was done my be some in and of itself but i would assue breach plugs would be fitted use a lathe?
i would use the lathe.
i have a TC that a guy traded me many years ago with a ball stuck in it i was unable to remove it just kept pulling up lead i called Thompson about a breach pluch tool and they said send it to them they would fix it and send it back free of charge so i sent it to them they fixed it but when i got it back the flats are just slighty off i wish i would have just done it myself.
years later i have the tools for the thompson after picking up a .54 with the same issue lucky me i was able to pull that one and did not need to remove the breach.
any way as a machinest i find the topic interesting

We try not to discuss those nasty non traditional substitute shooting sons a beaches in civil conversations here when ever possible.

 

[ohio ramrod]

As stated earlier CVA,Traditions, and some others thread the drum (or vent liner) through the breech plug. It must be removed before the breech can be removed. While it can be done it is highly recomended that you don't!