Vtmountaindeerhunter
40 Cal
I always bring a ml when bow hunting for that long shot . Screw the dnr
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Why only one?
- Thread starter Cliffdweller
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Ben Meyer
40 Cal
Indiana and Ohio, where I hunt, allows pistols to be carried in both firearms season and muzzleloader season. But, you can't use a modern pistol to put a wounded deer down in ML season.
I think this may be the reasoning, along with a few others. When a hunting regulation is set they establish harvest numbers. These are based on the hunting method. More firepower=higher harvest numbers…..This influences season length and game bags. Also, clear and simple regulations are easier to manage. As we have already experienced, it wouldn’t be long before companies would evolve “work-arounds” that would change the overall nature and definition of the sport…Ie. ‘Modern ML’s”.
I personally wouldn’t bother with the added baggage of a pistol, preferring to focus on making a clean kill, and being able to re-load quickly. Perhaps I would think differently if I had to worry about my scalp, or was hunting in grizzly country.
Mrg5
36 Cl.
Shouldn’t the point be to take the animal out as quickly and humanely as possible? How is preventing a hunter from taking a quick second shot to dispatch a wounded animal, which might otherwise escape and suffer until it succumbs at a later time humane? How is preventing a black powder hunter from having that quick second shot helping anything when all hunters during the regular firearms seasons have that ability many times over? Sounds like more of a government bureaucracy and control issue than anything that has to do with hunting itself. The fact that experienced hunters here are discussing the need to call their regulatory agencies for an explanation because no one has a clear idea of why says an awful lot about how needless this regulation seems to be.
No, you are being logical. Most of the rules are made by guys sitting behind a desk trying to figure out what law to pass next in order to get more votes. Down in this neck of the woods senator broxson was the deciding vote in favor of the red flags laws so he can get on a committee or should say chair a certain committee. The hell with the voters.
Ben Meyer
40 Cal
I used to think this too, as I hunt private land. 3 seasons ago, while climbing out of my treestand in the dark, I was charged by a large, barking wild dog. It was dark, my scoped deer rifle would not have been the optimal self defense weapon, as it was on my shoulder with a sling. I got his eyes glowing in my flashlight about 25 yds away and he ran, but he could have easily been on me if I had to defend myself. I had this dog on 2 trail cam pics months earlier, easily 100 lbs, German Sheppard mix.
This is is very sparsely populated SE Indiana. My 9mm or .357 comes with me at all times now
This is is very sparsely populated SE Indiana. My 9mm or .357 comes with me at all times now
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Not everything in muzzleloader season makes sense when compared with other seasons because the rules were often written by different people.
In VT we have a .45 minimum for muzzleloader season but no minimum whatsoever in the general firearms season.
You can carry a modern handgun for self defense in archery season, or for any reason during the gun season but you can’t carry one at all during muzzleloader season.
The rules made sense to someone at the time they were written.
In VT the legislature had to create the season but the changes afterwards are made by the Fish & Wildlife board and all the members on the board are hunters and fishermen.
In VT we have a .45 minimum for muzzleloader season but no minimum whatsoever in the general firearms season.
You can carry a modern handgun for self defense in archery season, or for any reason during the gun season but you can’t carry one at all during muzzleloader season.
The rules made sense to someone at the time they were written.
In VT the legislature had to create the season but the changes afterwards are made by the Fish & Wildlife board and all the members on the board are hunters and fishermen.
I think it has little to do with ethics, the important thing is that they can tell you what you can and can't do. I've lived in several different states and have never met a game and fish warden that I liked and that was easy to deal with.
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What state is this? Legal or not in Okla., ML hunters often carry a cartridge pistol/revolver for a coup de grace shot at a wounded/downed animal. Too, breech loading BP rifles are/were legal in Okla., so follow up shots would be quicker. And please, let's not get into whether breach loaders are in the spirit of BP hunting as they have been around nearly as long as muzzle loaders. (Heard this discussion/accusation to much among hunters in Okla.)
Mike in FL
50 Cal.
I agree you can't have two. Allowing it would practically negate the concept of a muzzle loading season which is twofold. - giving enthusiast a chance against the deer without regular firearms competition AND giving ALL hunters another season in the woods. Just like carrying a rifle along with your bow. Not my rule, but it makes since for you not to have another shot immediately.
Maybe that does not trample on your right to carry your EDC. But then you would not use that to take a hunting shot during ml season, would you?
Maybe that does not trample on your right to carry your EDC. But then you would not use that to take a hunting shot during ml season, would you?
That's because you're in Vermont. Y'all are lucky y'all get to hunt at all. Semper Fi.
This is a discussion about laws. Don't make the mistake of approaching it from a rational standpoint. Why is it legal to bait deer in Texas but not NY. Why is it legal to run deer with dogs in the south, but not the north. Why are straight walled rifle cartridges required in some states but not others. Why does my governor want to ban gas stoves?
The answer is the same for all, normal people don't write our laws. Beaurocrats do.
The answer is the same for all, normal people don't write our laws. Beaurocrats do.
I started reading this thread and was going to respond to one of the posters, and then I read another and another and another…
Wow. Just, Wow. So, I will respond to a lot of you at the same time with this:
May your chains set lightly upon you…
Wow. Just, Wow. So, I will respond to a lot of you at the same time with this:
May your chains set lightly upon you…
user 53891
45 Cal.
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Same here! 4 legged animals aren't the only prey in the wilderness! Actually, me and my boys use our muzzleloaders during the regular rifle season some years.
In most places all laws are passed by politicians , not people who know anything about the subject at hand
California had at one time a good system of fish and game management , that has sadly been usurped by special interests and politicians that do not know a thing about game and fish managment , the input of the professional, fisherman, hunters is ignored.
In the 60s I mase two trrips per week Sacramento to Eureka Ca., and coubted dead and dying roadkill deer in amounts over 150 every trip just left to lay because of stupid game laws. Peoplw afraid to stop for fear of being accused of ollegal hunting with a vehicle.
Buizz
During the Vietnam war tigers began to respond to gunfire for the chance of an easy meal , the same has happened many times in Alaska with black bears coming for a deer kill. Predators of any kind are oportunist, just watch your dog annything that moves in front of your house exhibiting the leastbit of unusual behavior is responded to,
Buzz
beardedhorse
Pilgrim
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The logic may rest in a single shot and fair chase during muzzle loading season. Suppose one misses on the first shot with the rifle and is tempted to take the second with the pistol? The pistol won't have the range, accuracy or penetration at rifle distances. You may unnecessarily wound and worse, lose that animal you used on the "cheating" shot. Temptation could precipitate poor judgment.
It takes only 15 to 30 seconds for a reload with a quick loader. In Colorado you can legally carry a .22 pistol or cap and ball revolver for small game if you have a valid small game license during small game season. You have to know when particular small game animals' seasons open. If you are hunting deer during muzzle loading season that overlaps squirrel or grouse season you could be tempted to fill your deer tag with the .22 or cap and ball revolver. This would be a clear violation of the game laws. As I understand it, even if you made a fatal shot with a legal muzzle loading rifle you cannot use a muzzle loading pistol, black powder revolver or .22 for the coup de gras.
Many states require the muzzle loader to shoot a projectile of a minimum weight, a minimum caliber and muzzle energy or muzzle velocity. And that it be a rifle or smoothbore longarm. A pistol would not qualify under those parameters. Two barrel, large caliber Howdah pistols are not legal during ml deer season. What would the personal and ethical distance be for a pistol if in your state you could legally hunt with the pistol? I'd sure check with your fish and game department rather than assuming that a pistol is legal.
If you cleanly miss on your first shot with the rifle, maybe you weren't meant to harvest that animal not withstanding being able to reload fast enough for a second shot or stalk up on it again even though it may be alarmed or distressed. I don't see the need to change the laws in most states to allow a muzzle loading pistol for deer. Just be competent and have confidence in the one you carry in my humble opinion.
It takes only 15 to 30 seconds for a reload with a quick loader. In Colorado you can legally carry a .22 pistol or cap and ball revolver for small game if you have a valid small game license during small game season. You have to know when particular small game animals' seasons open. If you are hunting deer during muzzle loading season that overlaps squirrel or grouse season you could be tempted to fill your deer tag with the .22 or cap and ball revolver. This would be a clear violation of the game laws. As I understand it, even if you made a fatal shot with a legal muzzle loading rifle you cannot use a muzzle loading pistol, black powder revolver or .22 for the coup de gras.
Many states require the muzzle loader to shoot a projectile of a minimum weight, a minimum caliber and muzzle energy or muzzle velocity. And that it be a rifle or smoothbore longarm. A pistol would not qualify under those parameters. Two barrel, large caliber Howdah pistols are not legal during ml deer season. What would the personal and ethical distance be for a pistol if in your state you could legally hunt with the pistol? I'd sure check with your fish and game department rather than assuming that a pistol is legal.
If you cleanly miss on your first shot with the rifle, maybe you weren't meant to harvest that animal not withstanding being able to reload fast enough for a second shot or stalk up on it again even though it may be alarmed or distressed. I don't see the need to change the laws in most states to allow a muzzle loading pistol for deer. Just be competent and have confidence in the one you carry in my humble opinion.
Libtards running the Game n Fish Comm.
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i would suspect that this is because the rules are written by those who know very little about hunting, or muzzle loading, or how to do both at the same time. Without the usual political rant, i would posit that i am again disappointed in our legislature. ... well, we keep electing Bernie, so i can't claim any great insight into the thinking of the average Vermont voter (assumsit arguendo that there is any thinking) when they pull the lever...
That is correct!!!!
