Why swamped barrels?

[oldwood]

Don't over look a straight taper barrel. Have used many of them in different calibers , with good success. On these , most were either .50 or .54. cal , and the taper was 15/16" to 7/8" and different lengths to .40 ". Like tapered and flared barrels , a straight taper barrel shifts weight towards the shooter , and away from the muzzle for good balance. A straight taper barrel , needs a lower rear sight an a slightly higher front sight. ..............oldwood

 

[Col. Batguano]

They are made in Washington D.C. Home of the swamp. when they drain the swamp there will be no more swamped barrels.

 

[Professor flintlock]

Barrels were forged and made thicker at the breech where the pressure is greatest. Then tapered to save weight, and flared at the muzzle to bring front sight height up to normal and provide a pleasing shape. Hand forging and welding up a barrel is a lot of work. Adding the taper and flare along the way is not that hard for someone who is experienced.

I think you have it by right.good job

 

[Zonie]

Barrels were forged and made thicker at the breech where the pressure is greatest. Then tapered to save weight, and flared at the muzzle to bring front sight height up to normal and provide a pleasing shape. Hand forging and welding up a barrel is a lot of work. Adding the taper and flare along the way is not that hard for someone who is experienced.

I think there is another reason for the flared muzzle in addition to raising the front sight.

These old barrels were made by hammer welding the barrel material and the weld joint is the weakest part of them.
At any given location along the length of the barrel other than at the breech or the muzzle, the weld joint has material in front of and behind it to give added strength to the zone. If we analyze the stresses at 10 inches from the breech, we would find the material at 9 3/4" and 10 1/4" absorbs a lot of the stresses at the 10 inch location.
This is not true at the muzzle where only the material in the direction of the breech is present to absorb some of the stress.
By flaring the muzzle area of the barrel, the weld joints length from inside to outside becomes greater and this increases the amount of weld that must withstand the stress from the internal pressure. Of course, the thickness of the material also is greater with the flaired muzzle so the total strength at the muzzle is greater. In other words, the increased barrel thickness and the amount of weld at the muzzle becomes considerably stronger than the barrel material in the thinnest area of the barrel further back towards the breech.

 

[SOLANCO]

One possible explanation I've heard for swamping is it was easier to make a barrel with a swamp in it than one that is perfectly straight. I'm not sure so maybe someone can correct me on this but it makes sense: people nowadays getting worked up and attributing all this meaning to something when in reality it was just at some point an easier thing to do and it worked so it got passed down.

Both straight and swamped barrels were used back then. Out of the ones that were swamped, they ran the full range from almost completely unnoticeable to radically more swamped than anything on the market today.

While they tend to have better balance and weight, the only way to be certain is to handle a barrel before you purchase it, if it's a boat anchor it's a boat anchor and no amount of swamping will change the fact on a finished rifle. On the other hand, I have picked up some straight barreled rifles that were an absolute dream.

A straight barrel has better harmonics and is more accurate than a swamped barrel. The difference is not enough to lose sleep over or keep your freezer empty but it's there. It's one of the reasons why match rifles use some 20 pound straight barreled monstrosity.

I am recently come to muzzleloading. Have been a bird hunter and an avid student of double shotguns.
If you are going to spend a day following dogs while carrying a gun weight assumes great importance. My favorite doubles are 6 lbs and less. They do, of course, need more than light weight. But I only carried a heavier gun on a day long hunt once.
The point of this is the day I ordered my first long rifle. I was set on a small caliber. The maker let me handle several rifles and I was conscious of weight in the smaller calibers. He handed me a .54 and it was remarkably lighter. A function of less metal in the barrel because of a larger bore. It carries well and is easier to mount and aim with. Not because .54 is a superior caliber, but because the gun is a light delight.
I do not believe swamping would have helped much in this case. But if you are going to carry the gun all day, weight reduction is very important.

 

[SOLANCO]

They are made in Washington D.C. Home of the swamp. when they drain the swamp there will be no more swamped barrels.

A swamp is a clean and healthy eco system. DC is not a swamp. It is a cesspool.

 

[Col. Batguano]

A swamp is a clean and healthy eco system. DC is not a swamp. It is a cesspool.

I stand merrily and humbly corrected. You had it right. I had I wrong. No excuse. My apologies please.

A "Cesspool Barrel" might be a catchy new name...or...maybe not. Use your own imagination who's face would glorify the engraved face of the new "Cesspool Barrel". Remember; You 're the one that has to look at this on a tang engraving from now until time itself ends.

 

[Stophel]

.............

 

[Stophel]

My issue is dovetails, etc. On a swamped barrel it would seem you would go more shallow in the middle???

They all should be pretty shallow anyway. The dovetails should be "raised" about as much as they are cut in.

Now, honestly, I don't actually always do that, but still, the dovetails should be much shallower than many people today want to do them (same with sight dovetails).

I also solder my dovetailed tenons in place... I don't like them moving!

 

[Patch]

weight reduction is very important.

I'd argue it's thee most important thing. It doesn't matter how accurate your rifle is if it never leaves your house.

 

[Eterry]

i want to own a swamped barrel just to see for myself how big a PITA it is to inlet and if it points like a magic wand.

When I announced I was using a straight barrel for my Early Lancaster you'd have thought I'd called y'alls mother a bad name!

It's a 44" barrel in a almost 9lb gun. It holds on a target pretty well and I don't have a problem toting it so far, but time will change that I'm sure.

 

[Eterry]

I'd argue it's thee most important thing. It doesn't matter how accurate your rifle is if it never leaves your house.

My gunsmith friend says " recoil is momentary but gravity works ALL DAY LONG!"

 

[Patch]

My gunsmith friend says " recoil is momentary but gravity works ALL DAY LONG!"

I would trust that man with my life.

 

[WRussell]

Another reason for increasing the thickness of a tapered barrel at the muzzle - swamping it - is, as Zonie talked about, strength. And that includes protecting the muzzle from dents. Early barrels (1600s, early 1700s) were often thin at the muzzle, and many got dented, as any collector of such will tell you. I'd guess the development of the swamped barrel started with preventing dents.
One gunmaker found another use for a swamped barrel (pistol barrel).
Would anyone care to comment on this swamped barrel?

 

[JCKelly]

My issue is dovetails, etc. On a swamped barrel it would seem you would go more shallow in the middle???

Stress from internal gas pressure will be higher at the muzzle. That is why o-l-d cannon barrel were larger just at the muzzle. It was not for pretty. Ask a good mechanical engineer - I understand it but my explanation would be long and unclear.

Look at Zonie's explanation but, (with respect, Z) don't consider the weld strength. It is a matter of mechanics/geometry.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Up until they started making Parrot rifles and James rifles during the WBTS, cannons had muzzle rings, mostly to add strength in that area as per Zonie's post. With later guns (and modern artillery as well as modern small arms) they don't. I suspect the advancements in metallurgy have made them unnecessary.

 

[Whitworth]

Stress from internal gas pressure will be higher at the muzzle. That is why o-l-d cannon barrel were larger just at the muzzle. It was not for pretty. Ask a good mechanical engineer - I understand it but my explanation would be long and unclear.

Look at Zonie's explanation but, (with respect, Z) don't consider the weld strength. It is a matter of mechanics/geometry.

Have to respectfully disagree as the Parrot, Blakely, Brook, Whitworth and other artillery tubes both rifled and smoothbore had straight or tapered non flared barrels. I can see the additional metal surrounding the muzzle to strengthen it against physical damage but not otherwise. JMHO

 

[beardedhorse]

The barrel lugs for a swamped barrel can be soldered rather than fit into a shallow dovetail. Peening a staple that goes into two holes drilled in the flat must be done carefully as to not drill into the bore. There is a special tool for "prying" up a shallow dovetail from a shallow groove. The 48" long, 60 caliber Getz barrel I am making an English style rifled "fowler" from has run out at the muzzle and this has delayed the construction. I already have it inlet into a $350.00 piece of premium plus curly maple sans hooked breech plug. There are historic examples of rifles with fowler style butt plates and trigger guards and fowling wrist and comb design
Because of the barrel vibrations, many shooters do not take the pins or wedges from the stock to remove the barrel but leave it in the stock when cleaning. Using glass bedding is not period correct but I know many modern gunsmiths who rely on it to strengthen the stock at the breech end and coax a little more accuracy than careful inletting will get.
The balance and lengthened sighting radius will make this an especially comfortable and hopefully accurate offhand shooter.

 

[beardedhorse]

The original Mariano Medina Hawken rifle I handled was freshened out from .54 to .58 caliber. The rate of twist was unusually fast, 1 in 32 or 34" and the barrel was slightly swamped. Other original Hawken rifles, both fullstock and half stock , were pretty much straight octagon. Massive and heavy that could take heavy charges and still shoot plumb center. Harmonics were not as great an issue on forged wrought iron barrels as they are of modern machining steels and alloys. The extra weight at the muzzle end of a swamped barrel wavers less in the wind than a tapered barrel. Good point on the height of the blades on front sights of a tapered barrel vs swamped.

 

[Patch]

Using glass bedding is not period correct

I vaguely remember reading something or talking to somebody a while back who said pine tar or maybe it was pitch or something similar was used on some originals as a bedding compound? I honestly have no idea what any of those things are or what they could have been used on so maybe someone can shed some light on the matter?