Willits Lock

[jgregory]

I have a Veteran Arms Brown Bess 1st model, we were at a reenactment at Fort Mifflin, Phila last weekend, and all the sudden I am getting no spark, and I'm shattering flints. I bought the gun second hand so the warranty does not apply.

Is it worth while to try and tune the lock as it never really sparked well from the beginning, or just buy a new lock and if so does anybody know where to purchase one on line?

 

[matt denison]

My advice is that you'd be better off working on the lock that you have rather than buying another lock ( the Willits needs to be built as it is only a parts set) and hoping that you can make it fit without looking like :barf:

Suddenly not sparking and shattering flints are symptoms of wearing through a case hardened frizzen surface. My best fix would be a half sole of spring stock - or 1095 if you can get it, properly hardened and soldered on to your existing frizzen.

 

[gunmaker43]

www.flintlockrepair.com can tune it for you....Tom

 

[jgregory]

Thanks for the advice, I know a blacksmith, I'll take the frizzen off and see if he can harden it for me.

 

[vetarms]

Why don't you contact Veteran Arms and let them have a look?

Here is their contact page:
http://www.veteranarms.com/ReproductionMuzzleloadersandFlintlocks/Contact.html

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Don't confuse the lock from Track of The Wolf marked "Willits" with an India made lock with the same name, please. Veteran Arms locks are of India origin. I have such a lock marked "Willits" from Loyalist Arms in Canada, of Indian origin.

A simple blacksmith will NOT have the necessary knowledge to properly harden a frizzen. There is a good chance it will not be done right, it may shatter, or it may become so brittle that it shatters when used. Hardening an India made frizzen is the same basic procedure as hardening any frizzen, but there are subtle differences between the steel used in an American frizzen, an Italian frizzen, and an Indian made frizzen. (i.e. some do well with tempering after heating and quenching...some do not.)

The first thing would be to see if V.A. will adjust the lock for you as suggested. There is a difference between "adjusting" a lock, which is rather quick and simple, correcting a frizzen hardness, which is also pretty simple, and an actual "tuning" of the lock, which is much more involved.

I hope it is actually a V.A. gun. I have serviced about a dozen Indian Bess muskets over the past few years, and I have been told by owners of muskets it was from X company when it was really from Y company. Not that much of a difference, but it would be if it's not a V.A. import.


LD

 

[Ike Godsey]

There is a lot of truth what LD says.

I would strongly advise to either contact Veteran Arms and ask for their help IF the Bess comes from them.

If that does not help, ***I*** would contact the folks a www.flintlockrepair.com - they know what to do.

I would - as LD stated - stay away from a "ordinary blacksmith" if it goes to reharden a frizzen.

 

[Newtire]

www.flintlockrepair.com can tune it for you....Tom

Flintlock repair.com looks like it is out of business. Any other places? I get a "This Domain Name is for sale" when I click on the link provided.

 

[Treestalker]

A blacksmith will do better making a shoe for the frizzen face and shaping and hardening it before riveting it onto the frizzen body; trying to reharden an unknown steel is a recipe for disaster. Ask me how I know! I managed to make a replacement mainspring for an 1860 Army Colt I once owned -After screwing up about 5 of them! LOL!

 

[FlinterNick]

Don't confuse the lock from Track of The Wolf marked "Willits" with an India made lock with the same name, please. Veteran Arms locks are of India origin. I have such a lock marked "Willits" from Loyalist Arms in Canada, of Indian origin.

A simple blacksmith will NOT have the necessary knowledge to properly harden a frizzen. There is a good chance it will not be done right, it may shatter, or it may become so brittle that it shatters when used. Hardening an India made frizzen is the same basic procedure as hardening any frizzen, but there are subtle differences between the steel used in an American frizzen, an Italian frizzen, and an Indian made frizzen. (i.e. some do well with tempering after heating and quenching...some do not.)

The first thing would be to see if V.A. will adjust the lock for you as suggested. There is a difference between "adjusting" a lock, which is rather quick and simple, correcting a frizzen hardness, which is also pretty simple, and an actual "tuning" of the lock, which is much more involved.

I hope it is actually a V.A. gun. I have serviced about a dozen Indian Bess muskets over the past few years, and I have been told by owners of muskets it was from X company when it was really from Y company. Not that much of a difference, but it would be if it's not a V.A. import.


LD

Agree with Dave, your best option is to send it to VA and have them tune it for a fee $$.

For hardening and case hardening a frizzen, the first thing is what kind of steel do you have, many Indian gun makers don’t disclose what type of steel they’re using, so its hard to tell what kind of treatment the frizzen will need.

A good option might be to find a larger casted frizzen in 6150 steel and shape down to fit the pan and bridle and then drill with a #2 or #3 drill. Some foundaries will make a copy of hte frizzen in high carbon steel 6100s for you, that will cost around $100.00 and additional labor.

You could always try to re-case harden with hardening compound and torch, however again you don’t know what kind of steel you have.

Replacing a lock on a finished gun isn’t the easiest thing to do, it can be done but the cost of doing so is just not worthwhile.

 

[rich pierce]

I’d not trust a blacksmith who is not a flintlock gunsmith with such a job.

 

[Rudyard]

Ide say Indian Gunmakers don't much worry about steel specs .. I once asked about it and was told "We are making with the help of the es scrap". Whatever the steel inc cast ones they say Not to case harden , that if you cook it well with Kasinet or longer in moulten bones, horn, leather, dead hedge hogs whatever it will generally give you the desired results plunged in clean cold water' boom whoopee ' ,Seems to work just don't drop the tin!.
You might polish up the ' steel' (frizzen if you must ) and run a torch to colour the pivot area but not the face unless you got it too hard . Useually works but if it dosnt then a known carbon steel. EN9 was one I used I used the slit hearth of a scraper blade maker . hence I knew the steel number . I used to rivet then silver solder but others araldite new faces . The classic "bright sparks with a whizzing noise " is what your after ..Hope you get it Regards Rudyard

 

[Britsmoothy]

It could be case hardened easily. As for possibly making it brittle, which I doubt, just polish it and draw it back in a hot oven until plum colour.
There is no need to induce fear over it.

I put mine in a tin of charcoal and leather. Put it in the wood burner untill it's all burnt off and glowing. Remove and when cooled some drop it in oil. Polish it, place on top of a hot stove then remove when plum coloured.

 

[FlinterNick]

Might want to consider getting a copy made.

It could be case hardened easily. As for possibly making it brittle, which I doubt, just polish it and draw it back in a hot oven until plum colour.
There is no need to induce fear over it.

I put mine in a tin of charcoal and leather. Put it in the wood burner untill it's all burnt off and glowing. Remove and when cooled some drop it in oil. Polish it, place on top of a hot stove then remove when plum coloured.

Well there’s nothing to lose by trying to re-case harden a frizzen with compound. Worse case scenario it breaks and already needed to be replaced.

I’ve had some bad experiences trying to case harden Indian Frizzens, I’ve had them almost bright white with compound and colouring is always seeming different than carbon steels. Which makes me wonder if they’re mixing in other alloys like Nickel to easily form the frizzen for a high polish.

I personally like knowing that my frizzens are made of high carbon steel 4100-6150 because I know exactly what temperatures to use on them. Pedersoli frizzens are 4100 steels and most American made casted frizzens are 6150 steels.

You can always try to bake the frizzen in ground up kingsford charcoal in a covered square crucible made of bricks, I’ve seen this done on original frizzens at workshops at the NMLRA and redevenous retreats.

 

[spudnut]

www.flintlockrepair.com can tune it for you....Tom

No longer in buisness

 

[spudnut]

Contact Anson Morgen at Kenockee trading post on facebook, they also have a website, Anson is a reputable black powder gunsmith. They may take it via mail and fix it. Give em a call