woodem patchbox help

[StarnesRowan]

hey guys I have a problem with making my wooden patchbox. Being new to gun building and due to the china virus I have no Idea about the lay out or make the patchbox lid.

should I get a kiber replacement lid for a teplate at the very least and work from there.

 

[simonbeans]

Get Peter Alexander's book, THE GUNSMITH OF GRENVILLE COUNTY, where he has devoted a complete chapter on making a wooden patch lid (Chapter 27). Nice illustrations and explanations.

 

[rich pierce]

I agree it’s good to read a book or set of instructions. For me, Alexander’s are sometimes quite complicated but ymmv. I won’t provide a blow by blow but just hints I find helpful.
Most important thing is to make a perfectly flat surface on the buttstock where the sliding lid will lie. Perfectly flat. Lay your desired pb outline on the stock, trace it, and make the flat area to just let it rest there. Please, no wider flat area than necessary and don’t let it ruin the roundness of the wrist.
Set up the top of the dovetail rails so they are slightly converging. About 1/8” closer at the nose than at the buttplate is enough.
I make the dovetails in the stock and buttplate and cut the cavity then lay out the lid.

 

[StarnesRowan]

I have Mike Miller's building the Dan Boone rifle and it show him building wooden patch box is his way easer. than the greenville county way

 

[user 48679]

Here's a step by step tutorial w/pics: Wooden Patchbox Lid

 

[bpd303]

I used that tutorial when I had to make a cover for the original Jaeger I restored. However I did not have to carve out the box.

 

[rich pierce]

I tried the two piece method once. Didn’t like it. Works for some but I couldn’t get a good fit. Tossed it in the woodpile.

I make the one piece extra long with the rails a good inch too long. Gives me a “handle” and can also make any needed adjustments on fit.
The sliding wooden box is not easy unless of course it’s done for you on a milled kit. Trick is getting the thing to lay flat on the stock.
I see a lot of guns with the lid 3/8” high at the rear above the stock - way too much. Also to look good it must taper and be far less high above the stock at the wrist end. Here are a couple of mine. In both cases I followed the style of the original the gun was based on.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

I agree it’s good to read a book or set of instructions. For me, Alexander’s are sometimes quite complicated but ymmv. I won’t provide a blow by blow but just hints I find helpful.
Most important thing is to make a perfectly flat surface on the buttstock where the sliding lid will lie. Perfectly flat. Lay your desired pb outline on the stock, trace it, and make the flat area to just let it rest there. Please, no wider flat area than necessary and don’t let it ruin the roundness of the wrist.
Set up the top of the dovetail rails so they are slightly converging. About 1/8” closer at the nose than at the buttplate is enough.
I make the dovetails in the stock and buttplate and cut the cavity then lay out the lid.

I should probably think about your statement "slightly converging" a little more before I open my mouth, but I am going to ask anyway. I have never made a wood patchbox, and ask WHY do the rails need to converge? Is the intent to make the lid get a little snugger as it closes? If snugger is the intent, then why have a latch? Help me out here?

Thanks

 

[Pete G]

If you do not make the rails taper they will jam when humidity swells the lid and/or stock. There is a good reason why metal lids came into use.

 

[rich pierce]

If you do not make the rails taper they will jam when humidity swells the lid and/or stock. There is a good reason why metal lids came into use.

Exactly right. With a slight taper everything slides smoothly then snugs up in the last half inch of closing the lid. Similarly even if tight from getting wet, once loosened a smidge it gets easy to remove.

 

[StarnesRowan]

how do I make sure of a taper

 

[rich pierce]

how do I make sure of a taper

Narrower at front than at back. 1 and 1/8” at front and 1 and 1/4” at back for example.

 

[oldwood]

Long time ago saw an old original Jager rifle , probably a gun confiscated by a soldier WW 2 and sent back to US. The end cap on the sliding wood patch box was horn or bone staked or glued ,or both, in place. Was the most highly decorated Jager I've ever encountered. Researched glues in Europe and found Central European woodworkers had Hide glue to use on wood projects , including gun stock making and repair in 16 th century. Couldn't imagine how that Jager could have a wooden patch box , with horn or bone end cap,w/o the use of glue to help attach the end cap. My thought is , today's m/l gun builder can use glues of our choice to copy an original feature. ............I'm rambling again.......oldwood

 

[Rudyard]

Dear Oldwood . I like your rambling , Your a good rambler . I make wooden tool box lids often and mostly get away with it not used the two piece idea but should work . I've said' tool boxes' as I think they mostly where for tools though you could put patches in I suppose. I make them deep like woman's handbag most have flints, a wire pick spare, a jag (finding the modern wire brushes ideal being light and sure grip ) and a ball drawer plus rag. I found if you get a 6' nail and pound & grind the poop out of it it makes a sufficient spring the nail head adapting to the button latch and I like the audible click on closeing . 4"nail might do but the heads have less to play with .. Thats me rambling but on topic.
Regards Rudyard

 

[oldwood]

Rudyard.......... Was squirrel hunting for black and grey 's in an old woods along a mountain road. Came a stream crossing and the old rotted plank bridge was gone. Was tired so sat down on a hump of dirt , and something stuck me in the rump , ouch! Started digging and found a fist full of old rusty 4" cut nail spikes. The cloth bag they were in was dust. I'll dig them out and see if they can be ground down into wood patch box latches. I too love a resounding "Click!" on closing the box . Just remembered something......In 1972 , my old hunting buddy was working near Lancaster , Pa. . He found in an antique store an original wooden box Jager . The contents were 6 badly deteriorated lead balls with the patches , dust . Each ball had it's own nest , with finger slots so they could be more easily removed by finger tips. Sounds too organised for my tastes. I like the "Tool box" approach. Just throw some tools in there , one spare pre-lubed patch and ball , a flint ,a wad of tow to make folks think you will actually use it , and close her up. Truthfully , in all my Jager deer hunting adventures , can't ever remember using any of the tools in there. ....Sorry ,off in the weeds , again.............oldwood

 

[Rudyard]

Dear Oldwood ' Weeds' are a good place to be off in . My trips where often at least two or three days & very often a week long, until I married at least so I certainly used my deep boxes mostly the jag & rag to wipe out the bore if I fired earlier or was wet . Oil was in a small bottle oily rag in effect . Not sure about cut nails I was meaning the round headed sort . That old Jager with balls well fine each carried what ever he fancied no doubt But Govt Baker rifles generally had a wipeing eye jag in effect. And small rod to act as a torkue bar to screw the ball puller and. No doubt some rag as did the Brunswick. added weight but ensured ' Thomas A' had the kit to maintain his bundook. The small rod when pushed into the hole at the muzzle end of the ramrod effectively made an elongated corkscrew to enable to screw the ball puller and draw the ball out . some of the Pre Baker Prince Eugines 1,012 Rifle Regiment had a powder measure . I have one but no tools survive Only 7 or so survived most now at Leeds Royal Armouries . But they are along common Jager lines very like the West Point T W Pistor architecturally . But had sword B nets That's straying a bit , its my finger it does that .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Buckskinn]

I used tutorial above for my first attempt with a two piece lid, worked out very well. Second one I did the same, but with a one piece. Both worked out about the same. I think the two piece was a little easier to do, but not by much.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I really like the general profile / shape of your PB lids Rich. Particularly that the radius's seem to change and give it a gentle and progressionary flow. So many of them look way too high at the center, like something that was just globbed on there. Very little in the "artistic presentation" of a LR (which to me means anything that is curved) should remain static in the radius. In a nut shell; curved things are about beauty. Straight things are more about mechanics and dimensional relationships.