Wooden ramrods, why no whittling?

[Philip A.]

Is there a technical reason why wooden ramrods are shaved from split timber, and not whittled from thin sticks, other than the fact that there might not be any suitable species of tree for that in North America?

Around here there are a couple of trees that are used for fighting sticks, herdsmen sticks, and spear shafts. They give very dense, straight, strong but flexible sticks. I have never seen one broken in daily use, even when used as throw stick or fighting stick, and I'm thinking to look for sticks of suitable size to try out.

We do have ebony and numerous hard (very, very hard...) woods that I'll check too for traditional shaved rods.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Greetings, @Philip A.

If I am understanding the question, it would be why we favor ramrods split or cut from larger logs rather than using individual saplings of near finished size. We had a good discussion of ramrods made from saplings just a few months ago. I think you could find it with a search of the forum. I believe forum members @rich pierce and @TDM made sapling ramrods successfully, and I know of one example in a museum. I think the main reasons might be the difficulty in finding a sapling that is straight enough and free of knots. However, it isn’t that difficult to find one if you spend time in the woods. I have two sapling rods in progress right now… just trying to decide which gun or rifle to use them with. You might argue that with the concentric growth rings, a rod made from a sapling might be stronger than one split from a log.

Here in the USA, at least in the south, we have persimmon trees, which are a relative of ebony. The wood is very hard and elastic, and I think should be good for this purpose. One of my unfinished rods is persimmon. The other is black cherry, which is softer and not as strong, but I think it will be strong enough.

I think if you have young hardwood trees of appropriate length and diameter, and are straight enough and free of knots, they should be usable.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Philip A.]

Greetings, @Philip A.

If I am understanding the question, it would be why we favor ramrods split or cut from larger logs rather than using individual saplings of near finished size. We had a good discussion of ramrods made from saplings just a few months ago. I think you could find it with a search of the forum. I believe forum members @rich pierce and @TDM made sapling ramrods successfully, and I know of one example in a museum. I think the main reasons might be the difficulty in finding a sapling that is straight enough and free of knots. However, it isn’t that difficult to find one if you spend time in the woods. I have two sapling rods in progress right now… just trying to decide which gun or rifle to use them with. You might argue that with the concentric growth rings, a rod made from a sapling might be stronger than one split from a log.

Here in the USA, at least in the south, we have persimmon trees, which are a relative of ebony. The wood is very hard and elastic, and I think should be good for this purpose. One of my unfinished rods is persimmon. The other is black cherry, which is softer and not as strong, but I think it will be strong enough.

I think if you have young hardwood trees of appropriate length and diameter, and are straight enough and free of knots, they should be usable.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Thanks! I had searched for the wrong keywords, and limited it to titles... Got the thread you mention and a few more.

Yes, as you say, concentric growth rings of wood fibers should be stronger than split/shaved wood. Also, if that happened, a rod fracture wouldn't be spear-like since there is no grain run-out.

It stands to reason though, that at a time when thousands upon thousands muzzleloaders were produced, making rods from saplings was an impossibility except for individuals making their own... And expensive custom rifles were probably fitted with rods made from expensive materials, rhino horn, ebony, and whatnot.

 

[Rancocas]

Many years ago, up in the frozen north woods, I clumsily stepped on my ramrod that I had laid on the ground when I was sitting beside my campfire cleaning the rifle. I had a week remaining of my hunt and nowhere to get a new ramrod. So, I cut a straight sapling of unknown wood, and whittled out a ramrod. Actually, it was more of a range rod. Anyway, it worked fine for the rest of that week.
However, I think, a sapling tends to bend as it dries out, whereas a ramrod cut from a billet that has already been dried is less likely to warp. People make bows (archery) from the same type of large chunk of hardwood, often hickory, osage-orange, etc.

 

[Philip A.]

Many years ago, up in the frozen north woods, I clumsily stepped on my ramrod that I had laid on the ground when I was sitting beside my campfire cleaning the rifle. I had a week remaining of my hunt and nowhere to get a new ramrod. So, I cut a straight sapling of unknown wood, and whittled out a ramrod. Actually, it was more of a range rod. Anyway, it worked fine for the rest of that week.
However, I think, a sapling tends to bend as it dries out, whereas a ramrod cut from a billet that has already been dried is less likely to warp. People make bows (archery) from the same type of large chunk of hardwood, often hickory, osage-orange, etc.

We have very straight saplings, that need minimal or no straightening on fire, don't have knots, and keep their shape once dried.

Thinking of it, I'll check if hippo hide is any good for the purpose... I have made caning sticks (kiboko/sjambok) with it in the past, never tried something as thin as a ramrod.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Is there a technical reason why wooden ramrods are shaved from split timber, and not whittled from thin sticks, other than the fact that there might not be any suitable species of tree for that in North America?

Around here there are a couple of trees that are used for fighting sticks, herdsmen sticks, and spear shafts. They give very dense, straight, strong but flexible sticks. I have never seen one broken in daily use, even when used as throw stick or fighting stick, and I'm thinking to look for sticks of suitable size to try out.

We do have ebony and numerous hard (very, very hard...) woods that I'll check too for traditional shaved rods.

The main reason that ramrods are shaved from split timber is that the split follows the grain to make a stronger rod that is less likely to spit under the stress of loading. There may be some slight bends as the grain wanders along the length of the rod, but that bend will help to keep the rod in place.

 

[reddogge]

Like an arrow, you want the grain to run the full length of the rod with no run out. It will be much stronger that way.

 

[Philip A.]

The "split vs turned-from-lumber", I know... I've seen what happens when there is grain runout in the wrist of a stock, and you shoot big stuff

My point was that a suitable hardwood sapling would have even better mechanical properties than a split. Finer and tighter concentric fibers...

 

[Notchy Bob]

The "split vs turned-from-lumber", I know... I've seen what happens when there is grain runout in the wrist of a stock, and you shoot big stuff

My point was that a suitable hardwood sapling would have even better mechanical properties than a split. Finer and tighter concentric fibers...

Agreed. A rod made from a sapling has no possibility of grain runout. The growth rings would be all concentric. Even if the diameter is shaved down, as long as it is done evenly the growth rings will still be concentric.

The edge grain of a sawn or split rod is stiffer than the flat grain. Next time you pick up a wood-handled shovel (or hoe, or axe, or rake, or hammer…), look at the end of the handle and note how the grain is oriented. The edge grain is aligned with the direction of greatest stress. Ramrods might be stressed in any direction, but will be more likely to break if bent toward the flat grain. A rod with concentric rings, as from a shoot or sapling, will have equal strength around its entire circumference.

Notchy Bob

 

[deerstalkert]

Philip, I for one would love to acquire some of that material. I have planks coming from Cambodia, and brass parts from a friend in Viet Nam. I think it would be fun to build a few rifles with parts from as many places as possible. customs makes it difficult but not impossible.

 

[Philip A.]

Philip, I for one would love to acquire some of that material. I have planks coming from Cambodia, and brass parts from a friend in Viet Nam. I think it would be fun to build a few rifles with parts from as many places as possible. customs makes it difficult but not impossible.

Deerstalkert, good idea...! I'll check and let you know

 

[tenngun]

In Berryville Arkansas the had the state shoots. Back in the 80s there was a guy with a bunch of blanks made from dog wood. Very tough. I never used it but knew a couple of guys who had good luck with them

 

[Notchy Bob]

In Berryville Arkansas the had the state shoots. Back in the 80s there was a guy with a bunch of blanks made from dog wood. Very tough. I never used it but knew a couple of guys who had good luck with them

Dogwood is tough. It ought to make good ramrods.

Speaking of Arkansas, here is a quote concerning a ramrod from Frederick Gerstaecker's Wild Sports in the Far West:



He used his ramrod to "cane" a rude and belligerent drunk, and broke it in the process. Note that the ramrod was made of whalebone, and he took the trouble to buy a new rod in town rather than try to whittle one out on his own. This was a guy who later killed six deer, braintanned and smoked the skins, and made a new hunting shirt for himself out of them so he was a pretty capable fellow. You would think it would not be such a big deal for someone like him to make a ramrod, but I'm guessing he really didn't want to get caught without one and he didn't have a spare.

The point, I guess, is that materials other than hickory were used, although the quote above is the only reference I've found to whalebone. Some English trade guns sold through the Hudson's Bay Company had ramrods made of lancewood, which is a dense, tropical hardwood with straight grain, sometimes used for billiard cues. I've also heard of English trade guns being shipped out with ramrods of ash, varieties of which grow in Britain and on the continent. Ash ought to make a good rod... It used to be the wood of choice for baseball bats, so we know it is tough.

Notchy Bob

 

[Wncman]

I would think Osage Orange would make a fine ram rod. Strong and flexible.

 

[Rob M.]

Oops ....

 

[Rob M.]

.....

 

[Rob M.]

I just use hickory ,split it down following the grain so its stronger , cross the grain much its not as strong .One I get it down to approximately 1" square or so I take off all four corners with rasp , then rasp it round full length then start fitting it to the guns pipes .... Traditional and tough....

 

[bpd303]

Grain run out is not good for ram rods.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/danger-of-grain-runout-in-ramrods.40299/

 

[Rifleman1776]

I would think Osage Orange would make a fine ram rod. Strong and flexible.

I have worked a lot of OO and agree. But, in my part of the country it would be difficult to find a tree with enough straight trunk to split out a rod. I understand other parts of the country have taller, straighter trees and billets used to make archery bows come from them.

 

[Philip A.]

Thinking of it... I've seen that some old rifles have ebony ramrods. But ebony is anything but straight, and almost impossible to split without breaking it. In addition, it's extremely difficult (if at all possible) to see the grain...

How does this work?