Wound bakllistic of ML-bullets?

[Stumpkiller]

Ah. I'm sure by the time we've had our way with the USA for 400 years (or 800 maybe) it will be no different, probably much worse. Too few rescouces to go around.

You're invited to come over here and share my land for a m/l hunt. I remember what happens when you guys are denied "living space". :winking: (I can pick because my father-in-law was a first generation German emigrant and I drive German cars :hatsoff: ).

 

[bigbore442001]

Here is a thought. Maybe some of you German hunters who are interested in taking some game with your blackpowder guns should make a trip to the US. It would not cost a lot of money and every state allows some form of blackpowder hunting.

 

[PreglerD]

I dont't feed roes at all in my hunting-ground, because feeding won't stop biting the young trees. This is a fact of science. The more you feed the more deers are coming and you have to shoot more. Not good. most German hunters are similar to farmers. They really breed roes and think they could cultivate them so getting good and big antlers. I don't. I take the antlers nature gives to me. but I'm not keen on antlers at all. I'm a meat hunter.

@ romeoh: got your message, thanks.
velocity dates can be read at the SPI-homepage - Gästebuch

 

[Slamfire]

Yo,in Germany you need for everythink a licence.
Perhaps one day we need a licence to die.
What, you have no licences to die,sorry you cannot do that.
:shocked2: [/quote]
Tell 'em you don't have a license to pay taxes either, bet they change their tune. :rotf:

 

[J.D.]

Kirrmeister ,
You said it was perfectly legal to hunt deer with a muzzle loader. So why do you have to convince anyone that muzzle loaders are effective for deer hunting?

If it's legal, just do it. Once those closed minded old men see your success, they might change their minds.
J.D.

 

[hawkeye1755]

Tell 'em you don't have a license to pay taxes either, bet they change their tune. :rotf:

Great Slamfire,never thought about that.
:thumbsup:

 

[hawkeye1755]

You're invited to come over here and share my land for a m/l hunt. I remember what happens when you guys are denied "living space". :winking: (I can pick because my father-in-law was a first generation German emigrant and I drive German cars :hatsoff: ).

Thanks for the invitation Stumpkiller. :bow:
When did in NY start the m/l hunt season?
Nov. or Dec. ?You must know,when i tell my wife that i get in invitation in the States for hunting,i will not imagine where her next vacation goes.Hawaii :shocked2:
You drive a german car?I hope not one of those Wild boar killing Mercedes ML? :haha:
:hatsoff:

 

[PreglerD]

J.D. I do it up to now. But you have to know in Germany it is a bit difficult with the various lobbies. Here even when a thing is absolutly legal but in the public's or better lobby's opinion seems to be bad or not to be wanted then you will get problems. The lobby will then try to mob you. and the old men of the hunter's lobby are very dangerous. They have members of the gouvernment on their side. Last year I had to feel that. It was because I didn't feed the roes. Roes are not bambies for me. They are wild animals who lived on earth since 30 million years. Within this period nobody was feeding the roes. This started 40 years ago also it is not necessary. Roes are prepaired for living in wintertime. They became fat in autumn, reduce their movement in winter and live from the fat in their body.The same as your whitetails.So why I didn't feed they try to force me by threat of punishment with money. But I ordered a lawyer who helped me perfectly. Everything was illegal, I was the winner.But now I'm in there scope and they hope of a revenge.

 

[hawkeye1755]

But now I'm in there scope and they hope of a revenge.

Yip, and these old guys never forget.
You did the right thing.
:hatsoff:

 

[Stumpkiller]

You're invited to come over here and share my land for a m/l hunt. I remember what happens when you guys are denied "living space". :winking: (I can pick because my father-in-law was a first generation German emigrant and I drive German cars :hatsoff: ).

Thanks for the invitation Stumpkiller. :bow:
When did in NY start the m/l hunt season?
Nov. or Dec. ?You must know,when i tell my wife that i get in invitation in the States for hunting,i will not imagine where her next vacation goes.Hawaii :shocked2:
You drive a german car?I hope not one of those Wild boar killing Mercedes ML? :haha:
:hatsoff:

THE ADMIRAL drives a VW Jetta TDI (turbo diesel) and I drive a Jetta 1.8T sport wagon. As the saying goes: "You know you've made it when you drive a German car that's NOT a Volkswagen." Actually, mine has a German engine, transmission and body but hers is all Mexican made. :haha:

In NY you can use m/l in the regular season, so mine started today (saw five, no antlers and no shots presented anyway). Our dedicated m/l season is Dec 10 to 19th, shared with bowhunters. Have plans to go out tomorrow with flintlocks in period dress with Carp off the forum. Should be worth a write-up when we get back.

My percussion rifle went off tonight at sundown after a few rain sprinkles and many miles carried today. This is the first I've hunted this area and I haven't found the "funnels" where the chances of seeing deer are better. Today was mostly an "armed reconoiter" to see what was up and what kind of hunting pressure was in the surrounding woods. Answer: not much. The one non-hunting family nearby (my neighbors, of course) warned that the woods were full of shooting and hunters for deer season. Hardly. I heard three shots within 1/2 mile of me at any time today. I estimate I walked five miles and, in that distance covered, saw five hunters (blaze orange shows up a long way away; one was in camo in a tree stand). Where I have hunted previously it's more like one shot nearby every half hour and three hunters seen for every hour in the woods. Tends to keep the deer moving.

Back to the thread. I took my digital camera with me with intentions of some images for Kirrmeister of round ball wounds. I normally try to cover the holes and make sure the tongue is tucked in for any game shots. I hope to get a little more graphic per his request; if I can find a cooperative deer that is.

 

[PreglerD]

Hello stumpkiller,

thanks for your labor.

 

[jethro224]

But this has to do with how the dog was trained. It was trained for hunting. An animal -your cat- was running away, the animal was obviously small enough to rule the situation and so the dog followed it´s nature. It started hunting. Best way to prevent such things in my opinion is to have a cat at home, so the dog can learn that a cat is member of the pack. Nothing to hunt, just like the 2-leg-members of the pack...

Not necessarily. We had a cat before we ever got my dog as a pup. They were the same size at first. When the dog outgrew the cat he discovered that it was great fun to chase the cat and stomp on him. The cat never did like the dog.

That cat passed away a couple of years ago. Soon after, we got a new cat for my daughter. We had to keep the new cat locked up away from the dog for months until he finally accepted it as a family member.

The dog was NEVER trained to hunt or kill anything! He HAS killed several cats (and a couple of possums) that got into our yard. We never let him run loose, always on a leash or in the fenced yard. I have no doubt that he will kill another cat if he ever gets the chance. He enjoys killing mice too. It's just his instinct.

 

[longcruise]

I don't think you will find any reliable formulas for ballistics by using things like "quickload" or any other automated calculator. There are too many variables from rifle to rifle. I have chronographed many ML loads and found that just changing to a thicker and tighter patch would increase velocity more than 100 feet per second.

Also, different powders have a wide variation. Here are some comparisons that I did all on the same day. Graf powder is a german powder sold under the Graf label here in the us. I think it is made by Wano.

Average velocities for various powders with charges thrown from 50 grain volumentric measure. and shooting a .530 patched ball from a 32" .54 caliber barrel



Graf 3f
Avg 1390


Elephant 2f
Avg 1201


Swiss 2f
Avg 1552


Goex 2f
Avg 1362


Goex 3f
Avg 1492

Pyrodex RS
1494

As you can see, the Swiss powder is by far the "hottest" powder of the bunch.

It's sad that in the home of the jaeger rifle and all it's history, including it's contribution to our American longrifle that there are hard headed bullies who reject their own heritage

Germany always fields a top notch team to compete in the International Muzzle Loading competitions. Msaybe you could hook up with some of those members for some support.

 

[PreglerD]

Meanwhile I had measured muzzle velocity of my .54 Investarm Hawken with several loads and conicals, here are the rsults.

80 grs Swiss No.2, 410 grs Minie, cast with LEE mould: 425 m/s or 1275 f/s, energy: 2400 J

90 grs Swiss No.2, 410 grs minie,cast with LEE mould: 450 m/s or 1350 f/s, energy: 2740 J

at arange of 100 meters the energy will certainly not fall under 1000 J, so the eneryg is as ruled in German hunting law for hunting at roes.

Using more powder, 100-120 grs will make it even possible to hunt at bigger deer like red deer or wild boar, here you need per law 2000 J at 100 meters.

 

[longcruise]

Your numbers are futher testimoney to the strength of the Swiss powder.

My 28 inch barrel shooting a 370 grain conical with 80 grains of ff goex shoots at about 1302, while you are nearly reaching that velocity with the same charge of swiss under a 410 grain slug!

One way to achieve the higher energy levels at the longer ranges is to go with a 45 caliber rifle shooting a 400 to 450 grain slug. Velocities will be similar to those you are getting but will hold up over longer ranges of course.

 

[PreglerD]

Problem with the cal .45 wuold be the German gun law. In cal. .45 it is only allowed to load a maximum load of 92,4 grs FFFg with a 246,4 grs conical.But I have tried today a 75grs Swiss No.2 charge an d a 220 grs Maxiball in my cal .45 Investarm Hawken. Get a muzzlevelocity of 1700 fps or 566 m/s and a muzzleenergy of 2290 J. Don't know if the energyloss at a 100 meter target is bigger or smaller as with cal. 50 or .54, but I think it is less because of the better aerodynamic of the bullet.