GAHUNTER60
40 Cal
Quick question here: When y'all measure the thickness of a piece of fabric with dial calipers, do you dial them down tight, or just to where they start to contact the material?
Y'all be ready for a whole lot of stupid questions!
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I don't know what Kibler recommends for a load but I use FFF in the pipe and FFFF in the pan. Workes great!The Kibler rifle I ordered will my very first experience with a flinter. As I've said in other posts, I've been shooting cap locks for nigh over 50 years (53, to be exact), but other than watching folks at the range shoot, and sometimes struggle, with their flinters, I have zero experience. And since I found out that my Kibler will be here -- assembled in the white, but otherwise ready to shoot -- before Christmas, It has just dawned on me that I'll be shooting in a matter of weeks! (With the TVM, it was going to be seven months before I'd have a rifle in hand). So I've started putting together things I need:
So far, I've ordered .530 balls; a "field tool" set (flash hole pick, pan brush, mini screwdriver); a pan primer flask; caliber specific ball starter; .018, pre cut pillow ticking patches; a tin of mink oil patch lube; .54 caliber cleaning jag; a dozen flints (from Kibler); a bench rod (again, from Kibler). I know I'll need some kind of flint knapping tool, but I'm still researching what I want to use (not fond of the hammer option; kind of like the nail with grooves cut in it idea)
The above goes with the stuff I already have on hand: Both 3f, and 2f Goex powder (local gun shop has 4f in stock); several powder measures; patch puller; ball puller; tons of cleaning patches; Ballistol; leather possibles bag; powder horn (one of the cheap ones, but it'll have to do for now); and several brands of powder solvent.
So what have I not mentioned that I need to shoot a flintlock? Think hard, 'cause, after all, it's y'all's fault that I'm in this situation.(I was perfectly happy putting little brass caps on a nipple until l found this website. Now look at what I've gone and done!)
"The only stupid question is the one you don't ask!"
Fire away brother, fire away!
Neil
You can buy pre-lubed patches by thickness. I'd rather be a little thick then too thin. That patch is what makes the initial seal between the ball and the chamber. After the main charge is ignited it will usually be on the ground in front of you a bit. Pick it up and look at it. If it's cut up, it's too tight. If it's pristine and completely scorched it's too loose. You're looking for that sweet spot in the middle. Compressed fibers, scorching on the center of the patch. I wipe the barrel with a wet patch then dry between shots. It's an extra step but the consistency is worth the effort. Probably not a great idea for a hunter but it really makes them shot groups tighten up at the range. Good luck, have fun!
Neil
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I never bought a tool for knapping the flint. I have a hand forged turn screw that I use to tap the edge of the dulled flint. This has worked for 40 years. I only carry enough in my shooting bag to get me by for the day. One powder horn with FFFg. Load and prime with the same powder, just to keep the weight down.
I have the 50 colonial with the rice barrel. I personally wish I would have been more organized with plan before going the range. For example trial two patch thicknesses (i.e 0.015 and 0.020) at three or four powder charges (I.e 60, 70, and a charge no greater than max recommended for barrel). Shoot at the 50 yard target and run your plan for two different ball sizes. I wasted a lot powder by not doing this. Once you pick your best combo shoot out to 75 or 100 yards to see how it holds up. I found with my rice barrel I need the thickest patch and ball combo using 65 grains including the use of an over the powder 54 cal wool wad (over sized slightly to keep from turning in barrel while loading). Without this combo the accuracy deminishes at targets past 50 yards. This is due to deep rifling and blowing holes in patches.
The key is consistency in the way YOU do it. My own personal method is to crush it hard until my caliper dial "slips" a bit. This is my way of knowing that I've crushed it as much as the tool is going to let me. Others may have a more sophisticated calipers that somehow tells them they are compressing consistently on samples. But the only thing that matters is that your method is consistent. My method may say the patch material is .022 and yours .025...doesn't matter because your method is what matters. It's only a reference to compare different patches and ensure that when you need more, you get the same thickness per your method.
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On my .62 caliber Rice barrel with the deep round bottom grooves, I "thought" I had to add a wad as well. I was really having trouble getting the groups I wanted with that one, which was my first deep radius grooved barrel experience. I started using a wad and the groups tightened right up. I posted a picture in the forum proudly showing a five shot group from 75 yards where all were touching and gave the load specs. I was aghast when another member firmly, and in no uncertain terms, advised me to get back to the bench, drop the wad, and work up a load that did not require an unnecessary item in the load chain!
Frankly, I was a bit hurt at first but I set that feeling aside and went back to work without a wad. I ended up with a thicker denim patch and changed to Dutch's "dry patch" system and what-do-you-know...I was able to get the same kind of group without a wad. I wasn't blowing holes in my patches, but if you have that issue, the fix might be lube or sharp lands or a sharp crown that sets up that kind of failure.
Clearly, each person can shoot whatever works for them, but by taking that member's direction I was able to remove one component and still achieve the same accuracy level.
Flinty Scot
40 Cal
If the barrel is pinned in, I'd add one thing to your kit, to make bore cleaning easier (& protect that fine new stock wood), a clamp-on flushing rig. Log Cabin has it and I think ToW does too.
I'm compulsive about cleaning; this rig made it far quicker and easier.
I'm compulsive about cleaning; this rig made it far quicker and easier.
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Dutch Schoultz (@Dr5x ) and I have debated this question for some time. Dutch likes to press hard to determine the compression, I prefer to contact the material due the many admonishments I received from my tool maker father who couldn't stand seeing a precision measuring device abused. As Dutch points out, "Patching material isn't steel being used in the tool room". My contention is that at the fabric store, the material is sized with starch and you won't get an accurate compression reading. The material needs to be washed and dried. At the fabric store, you can measure the contact thickness, and apply a little bit of pressure to see about some compression. Then look through the material at a light to see if the weave is tight. You want to see very tiny points of light. Best is no points of light. After washing you can crank or press your dial calipers to see compression. I don't like using a lot of compression (cranking down hard) on a micrometer because that is hard on the precision threads. I do like to see at mild compression that the thickness is approximately the depth of the grooves and half the difference between the ball and the land to lad bore diameter. In any event, if you are using a tight patch and ball combination, you have 0.005" to 0.0025" of windage that the ball and patch have to make room for. No one can crank their measuring device that much. So, I rely on moderate compression with my measuring devices and experience.
Siringo
32 Cal.
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Were do you apply the pressure?That's fine if that's how you want to do it, but I have a different take: if you can spare a few moments and press or tap on the edge of your flint and get additional shots out of it, then why not? There's often a good bit of life left in a well made gun flint after it has dulled for the first time. Like Spikebuck mentioned, I keep a small deer antler tine in my shooting bag that serves well as a pressure flaker. Some prefer the percussion method, which also works, but I find pressure flaking gives me more control and better results.
With the bevel up, place the tip of whatever tool you use on the top of the flint right at the edge and apply downward pressure, then work your way across the edge, taking out small chips as you go.
The same concept as the first method shown in this video:
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If you put more than one gun in the closet, they multiply quickly
I like to use a Micrometer rather than a caliper. (for me, it's easier to crush the material)
It is all part of the hand on participation hobby of flint lock shooting. If you want to go the throw away method good on ya. I think a slightly different way I guess.
Must be in my frugal Swiss and German genes. I knap my flints until they are way too short to be effective and then knap them again.
What I use, taken from the old (and no more) Muzzle Loader Mailing List:
I don't have a whole lot of tools for the flinters. The above notched nail knapping tool, a paper clip for vent pick and of course a belt knife which funtions for cutting patches at the muzzle, seating the ball with the knife handle and the back of the blade to tap the knapping tool. I prime from the horn. I ordered a bunch of powder several years ago, half Ffg and half Fffg. What arrived was straight 2F and I have been using that exclusively. I don't see any difference between priming with it and with Ffffg. Only problem I have is that the .45 barrel cruds up fast and I believe that would change if I use Fffg, which I am going to order right soon.
~WH~
I don't have a whole lot of tools for the flinters. The above notched nail knapping tool, a paper clip for vent pick and of course a belt knife which funtions for cutting patches at the muzzle, seating the ball with the knife handle and the back of the blade to tap the knapping tool. I prime from the horn. I ordered a bunch of powder several years ago, half Ffg and half Fffg. What arrived was straight 2F and I have been using that exclusively. I don't see any difference between priming with it and with Ffffg. Only problem I have is that the .45 barrel cruds up fast and I believe that would change if I use Fffg, which I am going to order right soon.
~WH~
I've been using that 16 penny nail knapping awl for a long time myself.
I wouldn't harden the knapping awl. The soft steel of the nail won't draw sparks at a time and place you wouldn't want to see them.
I wouldn't harden the knapping awl. The soft steel of the nail won't draw sparks at a time and place you wouldn't want to see them.
Find one individual that knows about flintlocks and go with that individual! If you listen to 50 different people there will be 200 different ways to do a simple thing! This ain’t rocket science!
Erwan
45 Cal.
The 51st person says: I just have a brass cylinder with a lathe tool stroke, nothing more, and I rarely need to use my short bullet starter to tap on it...
If the flint is properly mounted, it just needs to be refreshed from time to time...
If the flint is properly mounted, it just needs to be refreshed from time to time...
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You guys do know that this post is 5 months old, right?
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