zouave muskets

[Blaze]

My Zouave shoots PRB best, minis were not consistent.

 

[Eterry]

Mini balls are plain hard to get to shoot accurately. They must fit tight, and be correct weight for the twist in your particular gun. A common rifled black powder arm can use a reasonable amount of black powder and a prb and do well, a little tinkering even better.
Not so with the minie. Some of the best 100 yard muzzle loading groups I've seen were with mine balls, but most will admit it isn't easy.

I have one "Zouave" that shoots prb well, and one that does great with the Lee 500 gr minie.

 

[RjSixgun]

The national armories at Harpers Ferry and Springfield both used the standard of 1-72 rate of twist, which happens to shoot 58cal 500 grain Minie balls exceptionally accurate.
However the armories in England used 3 different rate of twist barrels fastest being the Navy model Enfield, which is also known for its exceptional accuracy. But it was in the .57 caliber and used a different type of "Minie" bullet.
Problems in accuracy in only happened during the War of Northern Aggression. American ammo was to big for British guns and British Ammo was to small for American guns, so compromises in ammo had to be made and accuracy of both suffered.
This was also compounded by the many different Northern and Southern Ammunition suppliers using many many different types of "Minie" bullets.

As for the 1841 Rifle, known as the Mississippi, this was originally in 54 caliber and used both ball and Minie Ball. It was at the Harpers Ferry National Armory that this rifle started to be converted to the standard 58 caliber and up graded to 1855 Rifle standards (we will come back to this later). Many other armories where making the 1841 Rifle and did their own conversions and up grades.
Remington was one of these armories building and up grading 1841 rifles in late 1863. Now this is the fun part.....in late 1863 the US war dept/ ordinance dept put out an order for a new rifle based on the Harpers Ferry pattern and Remington won the contract.
Remington used the wording of the contract to their advantage " a new rifle based on the Harpers Ferry pattern". Now what the dept wanted was an 1855 Rifle, and what Remington made was a "new rifle" based on the "Harpers Ferry Rifle" but it was the 1841 Harpers Ferry Conversion Rifle. Remington as already tooled up and making 1841 rifles! Pretty slick!!! Enter the 1863 Remington Contract Rifle, or their version of the contract!!!!. The war Dept wasnt to happy about this and Remington was slow to fill the contract so most of these "new rifles" when into storage and some issued to NYS and never actually seeing any hostilities because the war was pretty much over by the time Remington completed the contract.

 

[Tumbledown]

I like being mostly historically correct with my guns, but if I'm hunting, I want to be sure I can guarantee an accurate, lethal shot. Game animals deserve a quick and efficient death.

Then use a gun designed for that.

 

[toot]

60, GRS. of 2FG. and a patched .570, RB. and send it down range! WORKS FOR ME!

 

[maineguy]

Mine is a zoli ,

 

[Cowboy]

Have both a Antonio Zoli and Euroarms Zouave’s. I’ve shot both ball and mini’s out of them.

Both will shoot PB with acceptable accuracy out to 100 yds.

I have molds for .570 and .575 balls. My load combo is:

.570 ball, 60 gr. Goex 2f, .018 pillow ticking patch.
or

.575 ball, 60. gr. Goex 2f, .015 pillow ticking patch.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Treestalker]

Then use a gun designed for that.

Mine are, when I use them correctly. Thanks for the snide remark.

 

[McClura]

I traded an Under hammer H&A 45 Caliber rifle for my Antonio Zoli in 1975 to shoot in some of the matches here around Oklahoma and TX. I tried several sizes of roundball and patch combinations and it was just so-so. One of the guys at the range where I was shooting handed me a hand full of hollow base mini's that weighed 345 grains from sheet lead.
He said try 50 grn of 2F and a small amount of lube in the hollow base and on the 2 lube grooves. These shot 2" groups at 25 yards but was 4" high
While watching shoot he mentioned I should get a new sight installed that is taller and then file to dead on at 25 yards. The next weekend he cut the old sight out and made a grove in the front site base and installed another site and soldiered it . Went out behind his shop and it shot right on. He told me to try 50 yards. I did and they were a little low and left. He took the Zouave in his shop, lifted the folding site and drilled a 1/16th inch hole to the right a little and down a little, lower than the v-groove notch in the site. Went outside and they hit dead on at 50 yards with same load. At 100 yds I shot 60 grains of 2F for good groups on the x-sticks. Then he showed me tow of his muskets, one for hunting and one for targets and both had the site fixed like he did for me. He showed me photos of a lot of deer he had taken with the Mini and one black bear. I'm not an expert on muskets but a 345grn Mini that shot very good groups is a very good hunting load. He said he had one 2 band musket that was re-barreled for targets where he had to shoot roundball and that is the only thing he used it for. I learned a lot from him over the years, even how to build flintlock rifles and shooting them.
I did have to put a new hammer spring in mine a few years back.
It is a great rifle and I will continue to shoot it and maybe hunt with it next year.
Mike

 

[HiDesertHunter]

Just for the heck of it I measured the twist rate in my Euroarms Zouave - 1 in 72".

For some reason I thought it was faster. I guess I have been lucky it shoots hollow base conicals so well.

 

[ZUG]

I have a Euroarms Zouave that I purchased new in 2000 and shoot the original style Minie ball with 60 grains of 2F Goex and it's shoots minute of pie plate at 100 yds. At 50 yds it shoots in the 3 to 4 inch group range which for me is just fine .

 

[HiDesertHunter]

Regardless however it is important to have a good sight picture with any rifle and while it's all good and fine to want a historically accurate rifle unfortunately the 'historically accurate' sights on some leave a lot to be desired. I read a lot of posts about accuracy issues and then when the person describes the sights I realize this is a big part of their accuracy problems.

When I got my Zouave I knew I would be hunting with it and that is why I immediately modified it for better sights. I stayed with typical 'open irons' but with higher quality components and an adjustable rear.

I seriously recommend for anyone who shoots frequently and is experiencing ongoing accuracy issues to consider better sights.

 

[deermanok]

My very first muzzleloader was a Zouave, 58 caliber. Shorter rifle as I recall it was a calvary model. I don't know who the maker was. I bought the gun in about 1973.
Only ever used miniballs.
It was a very accurate gun. Wished I still had it.

 

[Stantheman86]

The national armories at Harpers Ferry and Springfield both used the standard of 1-72 rate of twist, which happens to shoot 58cal 500 grain Minie balls exceptionally accurate.
However the armories in England used 3 different rate of twist barrels fastest being the Navy model Enfield, which is also known for its exceptional accuracy. But it was in the .57 caliber and used a different type of "Minie" bullet.
Problems in accuracy in only happened during the War of Northern Aggression. American ammo was to big for British guns and British Ammo was to small for American guns, so compromises in ammo had to be made and accuracy of both suffered.
This was also compounded by the many different Northern and Southern Ammunition suppliers using many many different types of "Minie" bullets.

As for the 1841 Rifle, known as the Mississippi, this was originally in 54 caliber and used both ball and Minie Ball. It was at the Harpers Ferry National Armory that this rifle started to be converted to the standard 58 caliber and up graded to 1855 Rifle standards (we will come back to this later). Many other armories where making the 1841 Rifle and did their own conversions and up grades.
Remington was one of these armories building and up grading 1841 rifles in late 1863. Now this is the fun part.....in late 1863 the US war dept/ ordinance dept put out an order for a new rifle based on the Harpers Ferry pattern and Remington won the contract.
Remington used the wording of the contract to their advantage " a new rifle based on the Harpers Ferry pattern". Now what the dept wanted was an 1855 Rifle, and what Remington made was a "new rifle" based on the "Harpers Ferry Rifle" but it was the 1841 Harpers Ferry Conversion Rifle. Remington as already tooled up and making 1841 rifles! Pretty slick!!! Enter the 1863 Remington Contract Rifle, or their version of the contract!!!!. The war Dept wasnt to happy about this and Remington was slow to fill the contract so most of these "new rifles" when into storage and some issued to NYS and never actually seeing any hostilities because the war was pretty much over by the time Remington completed the contract.

Basically a Pedersoli .58 Mississippi is their Zouave with a block rear sight and maybe some slight cosmetic differences. Because of this historical anomaly you outlined. They are essentially the same rifle.

Remington just fired up the existing machinery , tooling and dies and made "Mississippi " rifles.

If I were an Army Ordnance Officer in 1866 I'd have converted all these brand new 1863 Remington rifles to breech loaders. They'd be perfect for that.

 

[Tumbledown]

Mine are, when I use them correctly. Thanks for the snide remark.

My point was the Zouave (and Springfield) rifles weren't designed for hunting. It's like towing a horse trailer with a passenger car.

There are people here complaining of accuracy issues with Minies, or with difficulty loading. If it's a faithful replica, neither should be an issue.

 

[TreeMan]

My point was the Zouave (and Springfield) rifles weren't designed for hunting. It's like towing a horse trailer with a passenger car.

There are people here complaining of accuracy issues with Minies, or with difficulty loading. If it's a faithful replica, neither should be an issue.

I’ve killed many deer with a Zouave and a 2 band Enfield using roundballs. Both are as accurate as most any percussion, single trigger muzzleloader. I can shoot 1 inch groups with either at 50 yards. I’ll have to disagree.

 

[HiDesertHunter]

I’ve killed many deer with a Zouave

The Zouave makes a fine hunting rifle and I too have killed deer with mine.

I am however a firm believer in better sights and mine have made a world of difference but regardless my Zouave fits and balances well for me and carries easily in the woods.

 

[Stantheman86]

The original "Minie" Ball used by the United States Army was a .5775 for the 1855 Springfield.

When Enfields were introduced into the mix, the diameter was reduced to .545 so the same cartridges could be used in both weapons .

Historically, a .5775 size is the right size for a "Zouave " rifle but repro bore sizes are all over the place so it's kinda irrelevant.

 

[BadDaditood]

My cheep import Zouave is pretty accurate with prb’s but refuses to group any of the half dozen minies I’ve tried...
Hopefully my “new” 160 yr old Springfield with progressive rifling will like the minies it was made for. ( it’s not purty outside but the bore is spectacularly nice!)

 

[toot]

aren't they both great guns.?