TSS in smoothbore

[chrisLD]

Does anyone here shoot tss out of there smoothbore? I am hoping we can get a conversation started about it and share information and results. What load are you shooting, and how is it working for you? Any barrel damage ?

I am building a kibler Fowler and want to shoot tss a couple times a year for turkey

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Please don't do that.
TSS is not only the most expensive shot on the market, so it's the most hyped shot on the market, it's also the hardest shot on the market.

It is in my opinion, unnecessary.

IF you're going to use a Kibler Fowler for turkey, or any of the trade gun traditional muzzleloaders, there are some differences using the 18th century tech from the modern stuff, and these are especially important when hunting. Some companies do offer choked, muzzleloader barrels.

The old style of fowlers were cylinder bore barrels, meaning no choke. Now you can develop a good pattern, but reaching out to 40+ yards on a turkey really isn't going to consistently go well. Most folks try to get them closer than 30 yards.

Next, due to the lack of a choke, a lot of folks use more than an ounce load of lead. Say 1½ ounces, some even more. The trick is to develop a pattern that isn't over powered and "blown" due to incidental rotation as it travels in the barrel. You won't be duplicating anything modern with the name "magnum" attached to it because you simply can't.

IF you use TSS shot, the company recommends you use special buffering shot cups when using modern guns with modern steel, so using it in the lesser steel found in muzzleloader barrels means having a good chance of damaging the barrel, especially if you have a choked, muzzleloader barrel.

Lastly, if you have a cylinder bore barrel and use a heavy load of shot, a 1½ ounce load of TSS is running at least more than $4.00 from your muzzleloader, and while that's not so bad if you only get one turkey and bag him with one round..., you're going to run up quite the bill developing a load with a proper pattern at $4.00 a shot. While a 1½ ounce load of lead #6 shot is going to run a mere $0.30 per shot, and be quite lethal on that Tom at under 30 yards.

LD

 

[Blackpowderart]

If you can get a pattern out to 40, you can easily kill them with lead shot. Pattern is king. Without patterning the gun, you have no idea what it is capable of. If you look up on you tube "Jim ryser pedersoli tss" a video will pop up of a guy shooting tss out of a modern pedersoli sxs with chrome lined bores. I also hunt with a pedwrsoli and my
Patterns are better than his at 30 yards with my barrel being choked imp cyl his was mod. Here is my 30 yard pattern. Shot
Is high but didn't want to waste anymore "turkey" targets. I use #6 lead

It's not recommended you use it in a pedersoli, but maybe. But definitely not
In a kibler

 

[GrizzlyClaus]

Ok, now that the naysayers are done, to answer you question, yes I use TSS for turkeys, ducks and geese out of my 12ga. double. Before getting into specifics a question for you. Want do you want/expect TSS to do/accomplish for you? It can safely be shot out of any smoothbore with the proper load precautions.

 

[chrisLD]

I am wanting to kill turkeys, I use tss in other anpplications and it allows for much denser patterns with smaller heavier shot. I see some guys say they use it with no issues whatsoever. Then other guys say it’s a horrible idea.

I do not however want to damage the barrel on my 2000 dollar new kibler lol. I have tss shot on hand, and the cost for it is of no concern to me ..

I am building this kit for the challenge of killing turkeys with a flintlock no doubt, but also want to have the most ethical killing pattern I can create.

I am completely new to the world of flinters…

 

[Sylvester Pattie]

1)Tungsten has a higher density than lead, 18 versus 11. So you only get 60% of the pellets in an ounce of shot than you would with lead. Fewer pellets mean a wider spaced pattern.
2) tungsten is harder and more abrasive than the steel in your barrel. Even if your barrel is chrome lined. You MUST use a protective shot cup if you use tungsten in any shotgun.

 

[GrizzlyClaus]

TSS is denser, which is why you can use a much smaller pellet than you would with lead and still get the same penetration, thus putting more shot in the pattern than lead. And yes you do need to use specially designed shotcups, really not a big deal. Have been using TSS in unmentionable and muzzleloading shotguns for almost 15 years now.

 

[GrizzlyClaus]

Chris, give me some ideas exactly what your looking for TSS to do for you and I'll give you as much help and answers as I can. I can also point you to some individuals who helped get TSS going in this country and were a get help to my learning curve.

 

[chrisLD]

TSS is denser, which is why you can use a much smaller pellet than you would with lead and still get the same penetration, thus putting more shot in the pattern than lead. And yes you do need to use specially designed shotcups, really not a big deal. Have been using TSS in unmentionable and muzzleloading shotguns for almost 15 years now.

Chris, give me some ideas exactly what your looking for TSS to do for you and I'll give you as much help and answers as I can. I can also point you to some individuals who helped get TSS going in this country and were a get help to my learning curve.

I am wanting to kill turkeys, I use tss in other anpplications and it allows for much denser patterns with smaller heavier shot. I see some guys say they use it with no issues whatsoever. Then other guys say it’s a horrible idea.

I do not however want to damage the barrel on my 2000 dollar new kibler lol. I have tss shot on hand, and the cost for it is of no concern to me ..

I am building this kit for the challenge of killing turkeys with a flintlock no doubt, but also want to have the most ethical killing pattern I can create.

 

[GrizzlyClaus]

Alright, you already have TSS experience, great! For muzzleloading applications load as follows: 1- over powder hard card, 1- BPI TPS wad, trimmed to length to fit shot column height and slit with 4 slits, 1- thin mylar wrap inside wad, trimmed to height of wad, TSS shot load, your call on payload, but you already know you don't need 2 ounces of it to kill turkeys, and 1- over shot card. I'm using a Pedersoli Old English Maple 12 ga. and my load is exactly as above using 2 3/4 Drams Swiss 3Fg and 1 oz. TSS #9.5.
Use the wads no matter what anyone tells ya, it's just not worth possible barrel damage without. Cheap insurance and not that much bother for the little amount of shots you fire at turkeys. Also, in un choked guns, sometimes larger TSS pellet size actually patterns better than smaller size, i.e. # 7 or 8's instead of #9 or 9.5's.
Haven't tried Skychief's load with TSS because of the plastic wad, so don't know if it would help or hurt.
Wow, just realized that the most I talked at someone since I joined this place. Let me know if ya have more questions.
GrizzlyClaus.
P.S.: Yes, lead will kill 'em dead too.

 

[chrisLD]

Alright, you already have TSS experience, great! For muzzleloading applications load as follows: 1- over powder hard card, 1- BPI TPS wad, trimmed to length to fit shot column height and slit with 4 slits, 1- thin mylar wrap inside wad, trimmed to height of wad, TSS shot load, your call on payload, but you already know you don't need 2 ounces of it to kill turkeys, and 1- over shot card. I'm using a Pedersoli Old English Maple 12 ga. and my load is exactly as above using 2 3/4 Drams Swiss 3Fg and 1 oz. TSS #9.5.
Use the wads no matter what anyone tells ya, it's just not worth possible barrel damage without. Cheap insurance and not that much bother for the little amount of shots you fire at turkeys. Also, in un choked guns, sometimes larger TSS pellet size actually patterns better than smaller size, i.e. # 7 or 8's instead of #9 or 9.5's.
Haven't tried Skychief's load with TSS because of the plastic wad, so don't know if it would help or hurt.
Wow, just realized that the most I talked at someone since I joined this place. Let me know if ya have more questions.
GrizzlyClaus.
P.S.: Yes, lead will kill 'em dead too.

Thank you so much

 

[GrizzlyClaus]

No worries.

 

[GrizzlyClaus]

Let us know how you make out.

 

[extreme_fudd]

I've been thinking about trying it with my TC .56 smoothbore. I would use a plastic wad, for the reasons stated above.

 

[GrizzlyClaus]

Fudd, not just any plastic wad, make sure it's rated for TSS, there are much thicker and tougher.

 

[Nuthatch]

I considered using TSS in my trade gun at one point. It was a real challenge to get a usable pattern past 20-25 yards at best. Lead worked fine and usually does in these antiquated things. But we can’t use lead for hunting here in CA. So I was using bismuth, which deforms more in the barrel. I ended up getting an okay pattern with 1.5 oz #6 in bismuth and just stuck with that, along with its limitations.

Most people who I hear having a desire to use TSS in modern weapons do so out of a desire to take birds beyond the normal effective ranges. TSS allows you to increase the pattern density so when paired with a very restrictive choke, you have a better pattern out to say 40-50 yards. While that makes a 40-50 yard shot more ethical, I think a better case on ethics can be made for just sticking with closer shots. To me, TSS in a Fowler would be the equivalent of mounting a red dot on it. Can you? Sure. But unless you absolutely have to, why? Seems to be missing the point. If you want a more effective killing weapon, just use a modern gun. Even then, TSS isn’t necessary. I tell my hunter Ed students and newbies to turkey that if they can’t get it done with standard loads in lead or steel, the weapon isn’t their problem — they need to get better at calling, hiding or just the challenge of an uncertain outcome.

 

[Blackpowderart]

I can kill turkeys with my caplock out to 35 for sure with lead and my current pattern but all of them have been killed 20 and under.

 

[GrizzlyClaus]

Ok, I get the old school philosophy and yes you can kill turkeys dead with lead, been done since they started shooting at turkeys. I also understand wanting to stay within the confines if pc/hc for some people. And yes I Even agree that with unmentionable some guys are chasing the mythical 100 yd turkey gun. But I also understand the thought process of wanting the most ethical killing load for use out of "my" gun at " normal" killing range, whatever that is for them, be it 20 yds, 30 yds, whatever. Just because " you" see no need for TSS doesn't mean other's should not try it for themselves and make an informed decision for them. I will state from personal experience, that inside of 30 yds. the difference is not always clear cut, but from 30 yds to 40 yds on a misjudged distance shot or if your gun holds a reliable/ repeatable pattern there is no contest that TSS kills quicker with less or no flop.

 

[GrizzlyClaus]

Just different strokes for different folks, lol. Not being condescending or argumentative just stating. I don't shoot a flintlock fowler, I shoot percussion doubles. But if I went the route to get a flintlock fowler I would probably not shoot TSS in it simply because without jug choking it I don't believe you could get reliable/ repeatable killing patterns to 35/40 yds. with any type of shot.

 

[GrizzlyClaus]

Just trying to give the OP the answers he's seeking so he can .are an informed decision for himself.