Actually a 36 RB is 375 dia. Bigger than a 357. Modern 38cal.Not a whole lot of difference between a .36 and a .38. (.357)
If I recall correctly Cirillo used wadcutters in his .38 SP. But its been decades since I read his book so could be mistakenIt's all about shot placement. Jim Cirillo dropped 9 perps with that lousy 38sp LRN . He also won the Bianci cup. Most cops are not proficient with their service gun. And yes grizzly bears absolutely follow hunters knowing they will get a gut pile. Sometimes they get greedy and want the whole kill.
I'm a fan of most of Keith's accomplishments, but some of his writings tend to "Guild the Lily." My favorite examples were his insistence on using Only #5 lead Shot while duck hunting, #4 & #6 were useless to him, and his pass shots were always way beyond 50 yards on Waterfowl. Also his high rate of long range running heart shots.In Elmer Keith’s Sixguns he tells of speaking with actual Confederate veterans who spoke highly of the .36 Navy. They said they preferred roundball over conicals as they seemed to drop the enemy quicker.
So those that were actually there and used them in combat were very satisfied with their performance. Without a doubt they’re very lethal and with good shot placement would kill any man on earth efficiently.
Nothing “little” or “underpowered” about that.
Guess you have been closely following this thread.Actually a 36 RB is 375 dia. Bigger than a 357. Modern 38cal.
The 44m is really a 429.
44/45 RB are 451-454 -457 dia.
What a RB lacks in speed it gains in thump ability.
Actually typically use .375” and .380” diameter roundballs in my 36 caliber cap and ball guns.
When the topic of 51 Navy effectiveness in combat comes up, I always refer back to Elmer Keith's comments. As a young boy, Keith received shooting instruction from two Civil War veterans, one from each side of the conflict. Both gentleman praised the round ball load and claimed it more effective on human targets than the then available 38 Special loads. Since both gentleman had extensive experience in the War, I will trust their judgement.
Responded to a domestic violence call once. The lady engaged her cocaine fueled, 6’2” 200# boyfriend with a Remington .44 replica. One round ball through the sternum and the top of his heart and he dropped right there. I don’t think he took another step. There was no exit wound and surprisingly little blood outside of his body. She was arrested later, tried and acquitted of all charges. In my opinion, she shouldn’t have faced any charges at all. County attorney was a glory seeking so and so.
Duly noted, thank you sir.FWIW my ancient 1937 "Complete Guide to Handloading" by Phil Sharpe lists loading data that today would have lawyers circling like buzzards. Lots of long lost data in there such as 18 grains of 2FF behind a 158 grain bullet in a 38 Special gives 820 FPS, 26 grains of the same shove a 246 grain .44 Special bullet at 780 FPS and 28.9 grains behind a 255 grain bullet yields 790FPS in .45 Colt. Those figures can be easily applied to our Colts and Remingtons and are nothing to sneeze at ballistically. YMMV
There appears to be only one surviving Calvary veteran…
As a general rule when the diameter was reduced the velocity was increased in military cartridges hence the energy levels and hit capabilities increased and thus killing power.
I have a friend with 3 purple hearts and star or two from Vietnam say the 223 killed like lighting on what ever they hit.
He used every thing from the M-1 carbine to 45 cal grease gun and finally the M-16. He's killed a truck load of men so I differ to his actual experience !
Brothers... if you have your Bibles, ( Lyman Black Powder Handbook, 13th printing), you'll see the ballistics for most CNB revolvers.
The 31 Cal, using a 50gr RB, tops out at 795 FPS, for 70 ft/lbs of energy.
I'm guessing close to a 22 LR revolver.
The 36 Cal, using a 81gr RB, tops out at 1097 FPS, for 216 ft/lbs of energy.
Using the 150gr Conical, the top FPS is 787 fps, for 206 ft/lbs of energy.
Using a RB in the 36 is similar, energy wise, to a hot (Ken Waters) load for the 32 S&W Long. The Conical is indeed similar to the 38 S&W.
The 44 Cal, using a 138gr RB, reaches 1032 FPS and delivers 326 ft/lbs of energy.
The Conical, weighing 155grs, reaches 885 FPS, and produces 269 ft/lbs of energy.
Both loads are very similar to duty loads for 38 special, but with more frontal area.
They were fantastic weapons in their day, but like the Model T Ford, there are better options today
My favorite cap and ball revolver is a 1851 .36 Navy. With a moderately heavy load, it will throw a .380 round ball at just over 1100 fps. Can get around 900 fps with a 130 grain conical. Either will do the job on the intended target at appropriate range, I prefer 20 yards or less. There are accounts of Civil War calvary vets stating that they waited until being within 10 yards as a good range to engage the enemy with a revolver. I killed a fairly large 9 point buck with my .36 and a round ball at 12 yards. It was all I had, and i knew I could place the shot where it needed to go. It worked well enough, but wouldn't make it a regular practice. A .44 revolver is "more gooder" for deer sized critters.
You're welcomeDuly noted, thank you sir.
I have no doubt that the .36 was adequate and did the job - I do want to point out that during the fighting in the Philippines after the S.A.W. - the Army found that the 38s that they had issued lacked the umph to do the job quickly and reissued 45 colts which did the job much betterAt the time .36 was probably plenty of oomph considering all the 38 and 41 rim fires and the relative lack of resources. A small amount of lead and powder probably made good sense to a fellow without a governments budget to spend.
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