.36 Colt Navy that powerful??????

A very extensive study of cartridge effectiveness was conducted by Massad Ayoob, Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow several years ago called Defensive Handgun Loads (or similar).

They studied police encounters, FBI etc. I am sure you can find a link to it on the internet, they found that hands down the most effective cartridge based on real world experiences was the .357 magnum Federal 125 grain jacketed hollow-point.

The study compares and comments on everything from a .22 long rifle on up, if you are serious about this subject this is a great read.

M. De Land said:

Wow, he had time to do all that talking? The bear that came for my hunting pard covered 21 yards from the time I dropped the hammer on him, recovered in recoil and got another double action snap shot into his spine as he blew by! It was all a blur and happened so fast in unthinking reaction I could not duplicate it in a 100 tries. I call it my God shot but the Kieth load and bullet saved both us old farts by cutting his wiring ! We were out of camp and so far out in the sticks that had he closed into a fur ball we would have bled out before any one would have floated by.
Some day I need to write out for my family some of the close squeaks I've had in the 52 years of hunting, hiking and rafting trips I've experienced living here in AK.
I did add up all the days of camping under the stars a couple of years ago and it totaled over 1.5 years which was amazing to me !

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I have done a lot of big country wanderings & campouts all over the globe but the Bears I ran into luckily didn't cause me grief closest was a shock to us both I had desended the Mosley Homathko river in the Coast range of British Columbia .11 days before I reach Cumsak Creek Logging show .Me being in need of a rest & good tucker sought a job with the Loggers ..No one gave me thought or maybe had to run it by some head. So I camped up stream. My fire was low Ime in my Mosquito net asleep to suddenly be aware of a Bear sniffing my net. I let out a blast of started Yorkshire threats .I don't know who got the biggest fright But it took off. I build the fire up & went back to sleep I did have a 451 Muzzle loader but hadn't the wit or time to present it . Probably a Black bear and they tend to be shy sorts .

In a similar situation looking for a Camp job up the Sukunka river in northern BC (I always went for remote camp jobs , warm camp & good grub & pay. The firm where Some Australian crew ,some only arrived at Prince George that day from New South Wales
.Anyway I make camp down the creek and come dawn Ime tending my fire when a black Bear come's out of the bush & crosses the steam 20 yards down stream . No thought of the dissembled rifle same 451 . When hard on the heels of the Black bear comes a big Silver grey Grizzly following the black Bear ( The two don't get on ) I made no notion of being seen & the Grizzly continued after the Black Bear .BIG Phew! .Any way the boss didn't figure he needed more crew . and I forgot to mention the two bears not 70 yards from their camp most being form Newcastle New South Wales the previous day probably never seen any but Koala 'bears ' .Big Teddy bear size. I guess they would soon find out ! .Pity I needed the job & I do speak fluent ''Strine"(if with the help a peg on my nose ).Ide been all over the back blocks of Australia Same 'swagging' methods

.I shot one with my 451 on the Canoe river ide been after work on the Mica Creek Dam project . poor Black Bear I was out of tucker but have regretted it ever since they are' furry people'. As I see it and often camped near them .If unwittingly so
.The 451 military match style made from an old Martini Henry barrel shot it once in 46 bellow just 8 shots couldn't grasp the stock properly so cold but just had to go for a shot ,my mate had his engine running in the gravel pit near Mackenze BC another camp job .Still got the target & the 451. Would I choose a single rifle on such trips ? .NO Ide used my old ex flint double 16 bore by Siddall Chester shot for the Spruce grouse Francolin ect but a ball in the left barrel if needed .With that I descended the Klina Klini rifle down to the logging camp at Knight Inlett a two week odyssey but ide stayed with friends on Shilling lake When I reached Hoodoo creak it was going full bore I felled a big pine with my little axe it hit the other bank & was straining like a big rod ,so I felled another Like some demented Beaver & it disappears in a flash so I waited till morn it was still too fast to ford But I wanted to reach the logging show and check in with my safety man in Edmonton (Figger a likely time then add a week after in case ) so by day two I shinnied astraddle the tree fling my pack the last bit go back for the Gun & blankets ect the rush of water had me hand over hand along the limbs like I'me surfing flat Ime thinking " You cant do this Nemo " But chanced to touch a rock thence able to clamber out ".Huge Phew !!" .No real loss but I wouldn't be able to write to you about that or any other trip. The rageing river way too powerful .Just as Ide saddled up to seek what my map said where tracks my heel fell off but a logger drives by doesn't stop, but does on his return to the logging show & I set on as Carpenter got fat, cleaned up & 'Stakey 'and away I go incidentally that region is now a Bear seeing sanctuary . and the previous settler wrote a book 'Grizzles in my back yard '.. Yes I seem to have gone on a bit about bears but seemed pertainant.
Regards Rudyard

French Colonial said:

A very extensive study of cartridge effectiveness was conducted by Massad Ayoob, Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow several years ago called Defensive Handgun Loads (or similar).

They studied police encounters, FBI etc. I am sure you can find a link to it on the internet, they found that hands down the most effective cartridge based on real world experiences was the .357 magnum Federal 125 grain jacketed hollow-point.

The study compares and comments on everything from a .22 long rifle on up, if you are serious about this subject this is a great read.

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Tied for second place, at least at one time, was the 45 ACP FMJ and 9mm with hollow points. The 10mm Auto has to be right up there with the 357, I would think.

For what it's worth, I learned the other day that my little 1849 pocket pistol in .31 caliber with 15 grains of triple 7 showed a velocity of 1012fps. I imagine that would do some damage.

All I know is that my .44 1858 rings the steel with authority.

BeardedGunsmith said:

For what it's worth, I learned the other day that my little 1849 pocket pistol in .31 caliber with 15 grains of triple 7 showed a velocity of 1012fps. I imagine that would do some damage.

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I looked at another source and it showed 811 ft/sec. for a 73 ft.lb. energy.

Maybe your measuring the speed of the powder?

One of my great great uncles serving in the Union Army was shot through the chest in the Second Battle of Bull Run. Still alive, he dragged himself out of the open and into hiding under some bushes. After a day or so he regained consciousness and further revived himself with some coffee still left in his canteen. After three days he was able to make his way back to Washington D.C. — a distance of about 27 miles!

He was judged unfit for further military service because of a permanently collapsed lung. He received a pension from the Army because of his disability. He returned home, bought a farm, worked it the rest of his life. He married and had a few children, dying at the age of 79 years.

My guess is — he was hit by one of the .25 caliber buckshot from a "Buck and Ball" load, which was common in the Civil War, especially on the Confederate side. I would think that any larger caliber would have blown a big hole through him and killed him outright, or very shortly after. And I would think that even a pistol round would probably have been fatal too.

45D said:

I looked at another source and it showed 811 ft/sec. for a 73 ft.lb. energy.

Maybe your measuring the speed of the powder?

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I have no idea but I was fairly close to the chronograph.

I had a Navy Colt thought it Ellegant looking .Hans Busk added a rear sight to one & called it' a pocket rifle' ' I do have an original Manhattan Pocket been through the mill but nicely made in the Colt style . which adds little to the theme but mention it anyway .I thought that Busks findings seem to be stretching the elastic But he was a Victorian Gun Nut who had a lot of range time .Probably Pimlico Colt .with conical's.
Rudyard

I suspect part of the 36 popularity was because it was easier to carry than the 44 of the day. One of my grandfathers uncles was in a Kansas Cav troop during the CW. I have no idea what he was originally issued but what he brought home was a Spencer carbine and a Bacon 31. He must have thought that if he was in pistol range the 31 would be enough.

I suspect it was availability and the fact that the 36 navy felt so good in the hand and was easy to shoot. there was no Guns and ammo magazine or internet telling you that the Only reliable man stopper was the dragoon or walker.

nick_1 said:

I suspect it was availability and the fact that the 36 navy felt so good in the hand and was easy to shoot. there was no Guns and ammo magazine or internet telling you that the Only reliable man stopper was the dragoon or walker.

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Most likely every other person knew someone who’d been wounded or killed in the ACW… firearms and their effectiveness were more of a known quantity. Today, we have gun cranks, maybe 5% of the population, who get it, and the rest who know less than nothing about guns or their relative power. In the movies, people either drop instantly, or they receive “flesh wounds” and fight on with minor inconvenience. This would seem incredibly naive to a veteran or relative of a veteran of the CW.

johnraleksa said:

one big problem with people having those big powerful guns for home defense is where will that bullet go and how far if you miss. Who might actually be shot or killed. What would happen to you if that bullet killed or wounded a innocent person?

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If I have a person coming into my home "active home invasion" that I KNOW there is a definitive chance is going to do harm to me or my family once they get through the door, then that's a chance I'm willing to take. Besides knowing your back stops.

BeardedGunsmith said:

If I have a person coming into my home "active home invasion" that I KNOW there is a definitive chance is going to do harm to me or my family once they get through the door, then that's a chance I'm willing to take. Besides knowing your back stops.

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The part that always worries me is shooting some kid who hasn't had a dad that taught him right from wrong and I extinguish his light before he grows up enough to survive. Bad deal either way as you cannot allow that same kid to harm or kill your loved ones while he grows up either. I guess I could live with taking him out more than allowing him to harm a family member. Either way is a **** sandwich!

It's absolutely a lose lose situation. Having lived through a recent burglary I will say that the invasion of my sacred/safe space has reduced my sympathy for someone who would do this to others.

Dark Angel said:

Glad someone wrote this. Sometimes. I catch heat about carrying my .22 NAA' mouse gun.' Mostly where concealability is an issue. Small perhaps, effective at close range, YES. It will discourage if not disable all but the most determined. Even multiple hits from a .41 mag. won't stop a determined perp as a Wyoming Highway Patrol officer I met many years ago found out when, according to him, he put 6 .41 Mag rounds center mass and the man was still on his feet. Dead, according to the WHP officer, and not aware of it because, again, according to the WHP officer, he was high on PCP (angel dust.) Heard this once, 'The right gun for the situation, is the gun you have on you when you need it.'

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I carry that same "Mouse" when circumstances dictate . Watched a YOUTUBE of a drug hopped up perp absorbing numerous close range center of mass hits from .40 S&W rounds with no effect until he got tired of being shot. Brain/spine hit is the only sure shot to disable or kill in a hurry. YMMV

M. De Land said:

The part that always worries me is shooting some kid who hasn't had a dad that taught him right from wrong and I extinguish his light before he grows up enough to survive. Bad deal either way as you cannot allow that same kid to harm or kill your loved ones while he grows up either. I guess I could live with taking him out more than allowing him to harm a family member. Either way is a **** sandwich!

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This^^^ I read a somewhat recent account of a 71 year old man using a .22 rifle to defend his against a 17 year old burglar. This after he’d retreated to the top of his stairs. The pictures showed a smaller farmhouse sort of run down looking and I imagine not much of value contained within except that old man’s life… guaranteed he will ponder that for the rest of his days, rightly or wrongly.

nick_1 said:

It's absolutely a lose lose situation. Having lived through a recent burglary I will say that the invasion of my sacred/safe space has reduced my sympathy for someone who would do this to others.

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Glad you survived.

Eutycus said:

The Army thought it had to be a big chunk of lead like a .58 caliber to be a man stopper. Then it went down to .45. Then 30 caliber, now it's 22. Granted those were rifles, but I think a .36 would "do the job". I wouldn't care to try and stop one .

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They also wanted the 58 and 69 caliber muskets for good horse killing power. They could also shoot all the way through 2 or 3 men with a single shot if the men happened to be lined up just right.
Between 3 and 5 thousand horses and mules were killed at the battle at Gettysburg.
Almost all were killed by artillery and musket fire.